“龙”的英文应该翻译成 Loong - 转发 (A Chinese Teacher Suggests that "Dragon" should be written as "Loong")

wherestip wrote:



风趣 or 幽默(borrowed from humor) ？

Either way, I'm laughing.

wherestip wrote:

Success of a newly-coined terminology highly depends on whether it is accepted, or popularized, by the majority of the speaking public of the borrowing/receiving culture.

So far the word "loong" has failed to take flight. IMO, mainly because there is no need for "loong" to supplant the word "dragon".

　　中国龙依然是dragon，别纠结

　　译者们绞尽脑汁为翻译一个术语曾讨论一下午

　　翻译一个短短的词，看似简单，实则需要走多个流程。记者在已经出版的书籍中看到《中华思想文化术语》，每个术语由条目、中文释义和引例组成，每部分都有对应的英译。这些术语最终出炉，需要由文史哲专家和翻译家层层讨论和“把关”，有的需要数周或者数月。

　　谁来翻

　　国内外90余位专家组队

　　“兼具外语翻译能力同时又对中华传统文化有深厚功底的专家，可谓凤毛麟角。”外研社副总编辑章思英说，“工程”启动后，李学勤、林戊荪、叶嘉莹、张岂之等著名学者担任顾问，90余位文、史、哲学科及英语翻译领域的国内外知名专家应邀组成专家学术团队。

......

　　汉译英：为求贴近绞尽脑汁

　　术语翻译成英文，如何既能传播术语所包含的中文内涵，又能让外国受众理解？章思英说，科学而严格的翻译流程最大限度地保障了译文的质量。“我们一共有三道流程。首先是由从事翻译工作至少10年以上的资深译者，将术语翻译成英语。第二步是请资深汉学家修改润色，这些汉学家通常在文史哲的某一个领域钻研很深，且英语是其母语或以英语作为主要工作语言及学术研究语言，由他们润色能保证语言的地道和流畅。第三步由国内资深的英语专家，同时也是长期从事对外传播的专家最后定稿。”

　　记者注意到，有一些术语直接用汉语拼音做了音译，比如“风骨”就音译成了Fenggu。章思英坦言，有些术语含义很丰富、很综合，没有办法找到绝对对应的英语单词或词组来表达，这时会采用音译，读者通过阅读释义，一般可以理解其含义。她举例说，“仁”通常被翻译成benevolence，但我们选择了音译“ren”。因为“仁”有三重含义：恻隐之心或良心；根源于父子兄弟关系基础上的亲亲之德；天地万物一体的状态和境界。而“benevolence”只能表示“仁慈、善行”。

　　以前也有观点认为，“龙”不能翻译成dragon，因为dragon在英文中是凶狠凶恶的怪物。对此，章思英说，“龙”的概念在中西方完全不同，“工程”译审专家之所以仍将“龙”翻译为dragon，是因为译审组有来自外交部、外文局、中央编译局等机构的专家，大家都认为，以往中外交流不频繁时，可能外国人会纳闷，中国人为何会信奉一个凶恶的图腾形象。但到了今天，海外很多读者已经知道中国龙不同于西方的龙，中西交流频繁后，西方的文学影视作品中，也有龙的正面形象出现。

Spectators enjoy the Chinese display at the La Fiesta de Los Angeles parade in 1901. (Courtesy of The California Historical Society and University of Southern California Digital Library)

ysun wrote:


你发明了一个英文单词 loong，即使中国大陆家喻户晓，甚至将来还可能被写进国标，那么，无论你在中国爱怎么叫都可以。但是到了国外，那就得英语世界的人们普遍接受才能算数。这就是简单的常识。国外《牛津词典》及其他某些词典将“Chinese dragon”（而非 loong）收入词典，实际上就是对 loong 一词判了死刑！

ysun wrote:


中新网：400条文化术语诠释与英译公布 专家：误译易引发误解
https://www.chinanews.com.cn/m/cul/2017/05-18/8226988.shtml


实际上，早在一百多年前，海外的洋人就已知道中国龙并非是一个凶恶的图腾形象。这“国内外90余位专家组队”的“大陪审团”，等于也是给 loong 一词判了死刑。这些专家们绞尽脑汁把“风骨”音译成了Fenggu，却还是跟 loong 过不去，你说气人不气人！

wherestip wrote:


ysun,

...... The issue of whether to adopt the word "loong" has long been scrutinized by 90+ experts and decided.

I'd say the poor thing has been through the wringer already.

wherestip wrote:

Who would have thought! The issue of whether to adopt the word "loong" has long been scrutinized by 90+ experts and decided.

I'd say the poor thing has been through the wringer already.

　　中国的国家主席代表十几亿海内外华人亲口告诉全世界：“我们叫龙的传人”，但是经过翻译之后，外国人听到的却是“我们自称魔鬼的后代”（We call ourselves descendants of the dragon），不仅没有准确传达说话者的原意，而且把原意歪曲成了截然相反的意思。这显然是一次非常失败的跨文化传播，是一次非常严重的外交事故，是一个非常严重的政治错误，非常不利于中国建设良好的、热爱和平的国家形象。

David Shen wrote:

Maybe we should start to talk about something other than dragons, what do you guys think?
So much for now and wait till I return to my mountain cabin.

hj58 wrote:

结束语
　　“为龙正名，任重道远”，居然一语成谶。花了一代人的时间，整整十八年，译龙为 loong 终于家喻户晓，被无数同胞认可，曾经为之努力过的人无不心潮澎湃。但是，后面要做的工作还很多：1，向国际社会推广 loong；2，使 loong 进入英语辞典和英语教材；3，其它语种怎么翻译龙？4，中国大量其它文化负载词怎么翻译？希望年轻人继续努力，也希望国家有关部门支持和指导这些工作。
.
欢迎参观译龙风云网上博物馆

　　中国龙依然是dragon，别纠结
......
　　以前也有观点认为，“龙”不能翻译成dragon，因为dragon在英文中是凶狠凶恶的怪物。对此，章思英说，“龙”的概念在中西方完全不同，“工程”译审专家之所以仍将“龙”翻译为dragon，是因为译审组有来自外交部、外文局、中央编译局等机构的专家，大家都认为，以往中外交流不频繁时，可能外国人会纳闷，中国人为何会信奉一个凶恶的图腾形象。但到了今天，海外很多读者已经知道中国龙不同于西方的龙，中西交流频繁后，西方的文学影视作品中，也有龙的正面形象出现。

BEIJING, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) -- China Post on Friday unveiled a set of two special stamps to celebrate the upcoming Chinese zodiac Year of the Dragon.
One of the stamps depicts a golden dragon flying among clouds against a red background. Its image and posture originate from the Nine-Dragon Wall of the Forbidden City, symbolizing the spirit of vigorous progress and self-improvement.
The other stamp features two dragons hovering around a traditional Chinese jadeware object inscribed with auspicious patterns, expressing the good wishes of suitable weather, prosperity and peace for the country and people.

DESCRIPTION

On 19 January 2024, the United Nations Postal Administration (UNPA) celebrates the Lunar Calendar – Year of the Dragon with the issuance of a special event stamp sheet of ten stamps. The New Lunar Calendar Year officially starts on 10 February 2024 until 28 January 2025.

The dragon is fifth in the series of the twelve zodiac signs. It is said that the dragon represents good luck, strength, health, as well as the male element Yang. The dragon is unique because it is the only mythical creature of all the animals featured in the Chinese zodiac.

For the year 2024, UNPA is continuing its new personalized sheet design and format, which started in 2022. The ten US$1.50 denominated stamps feature a beautiful illustration of a dragon, and the tabs to the left of the stamps bear a white United Nations emblem with a golden background.

Both the stamps and background design were illustrated by Mr. Pan Hu (Tiger Pan) of China. Mr. Pan also designed and illustrated the 2023 Lunar Rabbit, the 2022 Lunar Tiger, and the 2018 Lunar Dog stamp sheets.

A special Year of the Dragon postcard, featuring the same illustration as the stamps, is also being issued.

I am not yet ready to join the "long" line to rebrand the dragon. This coinage is mostly a belated correction of an earlier translation error: Whoever translated the "dragon" into "long" should have used another word in Chinese, for instance, jiao or jiao long, if the idea was to distinguish between the Western and Chinese dragons. It is a little late now to change the Chinese character long to "loong" to avoid the negative connotations of the word "dragon". The connotations of the dragon have changed. So has the audience that is trying to make sense of the nuances of these connotations.

The word "dragon" does not always have a negative connotation. There is some duality to the character of the dragon, just as there is some duality to each one of us. In English literature and mythos, the dragon can symbolize formidable power and strength. It also guards and protects treasures from thieves and bandits. It is alert, attentive, and dutiful.

In recent years, in popular culture, movies such as Mulan have injected some cuteness into the image of the dragon. In the film, Mushu the Dragon is Mulan's closest companion, a merry and cheeky little fellow voiced by Eddie Murphy. And remember, if Nicholas Cage did not love the image of the dragon, he would not have been so devastated to discover that he was born in the Year of the Rabbit.

hj58 wrote:

Loong 之回归：
见证龙的传人如何摆脱恶名 dragon

Kevin Yang wrote:

Hi, Folks

I posted a poll question at ProZ.com last week. It is running the survey at this minute at the front page. There is also a discussion associated with this poll question. Please take a look if you have time.

I just checked the voter counter. There are about 700 translators and linguists from all over the world voted, and some of them even wrote in the Poll Forum about what they think of dragon. Here is the link to the Poll discussion of this topic:

http://www.proz.com/topic/44942

Kevin

[Edited at 2006-04-13 16:17]

Poll: What is your general impression when you see the word "dragon" or its image?
by Kevin Yang

1. Lovable, unique, interesting, etc. 34.1%
2. No opinion 30.0%
3. Evil, demon, harmful, etc. 26.2%
4. Do not know its symbolic meanings. 9.6%

Total votes: 964
[Discuss in forum (65)]

Csaba Ban wrote:

I am well aware of the symbolism attached to dragons - both in the West and the East.

But for me, dragons are first and foremost fairy tale characters, mostly overwhelmed by vagrant knights or the youngest son of a king or a poor man.

In Hungary, there was a very popular and successful dragon story for kids around 1980 on TV.

The main character in the puppet series, Süsü, was a decendant of 3-headed father and a 7-headed grandfather, but he himself was unfortunate enough to be born with only one head. His only pursuit was playing with butterflies as he roamed the country to meet new friends. Of course, all the folks were afraid of him, but he made friends with a young and brave prince who then explained everyone that he was a very friendly and lovable dragon.

Anyone in Hungary whose childhood fell any time after 1980 immediately associates to this particular character when thinking of a dragon.

Csaba

Wish Dragon is a 2021 animated fantasy comedy film written and directed by Chris Appelhans[6] (in his feature directorial debut) and produced by Sony Pictures Animation and Tencent Pictures. The film stars Jimmy Wong, John Cho, Constance Wu, Natasha Liu Bordizzo, Jimmy O. Yang, Aaron Yoo, Will Yun Lee, and Ronny Chieng. Jackie Chan produced the film and voiced Cho's role in the Chinese Mandarin version.[7] It tells the story about a college student named Din Song, who encounters a teapot inhabited by a dragon named Long, who has the power to grant three wishes.

Wish Dragon was released theatrically in China on January 15, 2021, and on Netflix internationally on June 11, 2021.[8][9]

hj58 wrote:

Loong 之回归：
见证龙的传人如何摆脱恶名 dragon

Textklick wrote:



Sometimes I wish I could spit fire. I like the connotation with pub signs. And Derek also has a point: see http://www.smile-a-day.com/puff.shtml



Chris

wherestip wrote:

That's a good question. Dragons are mythical creatures to begin with, so do they always conjure up images of evil and ugliness in western cultures? I don't know if that's necessarily true.

For example, "Puff, the Magic Dragon" is a popular children's song that's about an imaginary dragon that signifies childhood innocence.

Also, Eliott the dragon is depicted as a boy's guardian angel in Disney's 1977 movie "Pete's Dragon". There's no lack of friendly dragons/dinosaurs in TV programs for kids.

http://www.smile-a-day.com/puff.shtml
http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/puff.htm

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/petesdragon.html

IMO, most Americans have enough exposure to Chinese culture to know that the dragon symbolizes might, prosperity, good luck and happiness, etc.