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A favourite client asks for new, much bigger TM discounts
Thread poster: Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
English to Dutch
Feb 9, 2021

hello,

My very first forum post, and it's about money! How boring. Better cut to the chase A client I've been working with for 10 years has announced they're going to use a new project management system and that they would like to now apply a new TM discount scale to all future translation jobs. No reason given, unless you count the new pm system. See the proposed scale below, preceded by the discount scale I used unt
... See more
hello,

My very first forum post, and it's about money! How boring. Better cut to the chase A client I've been working with for 10 years has announced they're going to use a new project management system and that they would like to now apply a new TM discount scale to all future translation jobs. No reason given, unless you count the new pm system. See the proposed scale below, preceded by the discount scale I used until now.

Old scale:

Locked segments: 0% of word rate
Context match: - (skip)
Repetitions:10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 30%
85-94%: 50%
75-84%: 70%
50-74%: 100%
Collapse


 
@Renate Feb 9, 2021

You forgot to add the new scale

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
English to Dutch
TOPIC STARTER
here's the new scale + 2nd half of post :-) Feb 9, 2021

@Crhis - oops half the post disappeared after posting, how odd! The new scale:

Locked segment: 0% of word rate
Context match: 10%
Repetitions: 10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 25%
85-94%: 25%
75-84%: 25%
50-74%: 100%


 
Bizarre Feb 9, 2021

That’s way too little for 75% matches, which are often useless, and for it to be the same as for 99% matches is even weirder...

I’d ask them if they haven’t made a mistake!


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Gerard de Noord
Renate Schipper
Adieu
 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
They have to be kidding Feb 9, 2021

Renate Schipper wrote:
95-99%: 25%
85-94%: 25%
75-84%: 25%

75-84% discounted to the same level as 95-99%? So you get paid for a segment with 75% match at the same rate as a 95% match, even though the former might need to be extensively re-written?

I'm all for the proactive use of CAT tools, but that doesn't look fair at all.

In theory you could go back and analyse a few past projects with these two discount matrices to see if it makes much difference, but I'd bet it results in worse outcomes for you and better outcomes for the client. Else why would they be requesting it?

Dan


Yaotl Altan
Philippe Etienne
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Laura Kingdon
Gerard de Noord
Renate Schipper
 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 19:44
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
When did you last get a `pay rise´? Feb 10, 2021

Do any of your expenses go down?
Have you ever put your rates up, or are you still working for the same rate as when you started 10 years ago?

You have ten years more experience than then, and they want to pay you less?

I would ask them whether the new scale is a mistake, and ask to renegotiate your basic rate up!
Put it diplomatically, of course.

I know the problem - I get paid a lower basic rate by my oldest, favourite clients! I know them and
... See more
Do any of your expenses go down?
Have you ever put your rates up, or are you still working for the same rate as when you started 10 years ago?

You have ten years more experience than then, and they want to pay you less?

I would ask them whether the new scale is a mistake, and ask to renegotiate your basic rate up!
Put it diplomatically, of course.

I know the problem - I get paid a lower basic rate by my oldest, favourite clients! I know them and get on with them, and they do all the work around translating, so I work efficiently for them, without struggling with formatting or other tiresome little extras. I reckon I still make quite a good hourly rate when I work for them, but I would not accept a cut from any of them!
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Renate Schipper
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Renate Feb 10, 2021

Renate Schipper wrote:
Old scale:
95-99%: 30%
85-94%: 50%
75-84%: 70%
0-74%: 100%

New scale:
95-99%: 25%
85-94%: 25%
75-84%: 25%
0-74%: 100%

My main issue is with the discounts for the lower matches. It's quite a big drop. ... I think the new scale is simply not fair.


Well, if this is non-negotiable, then you're going to have to accept the new rates sheet. But I agree that it is risky to accept 25% for the lower matches, especially if you're going to be getting a lot of them. If you look at your previous work for this client, do you typically get a sizeable amount of low fuzzy matches?

Christine Andersen wrote:
I would ask them whether the new scale is a mistake...


I agree, it does seem like a typing error.

PS. Your post got truncated because you used a < character, and ProZ.com's 20-year old forum software considers that to be the start of code. People who press the Quote button can still see the entire post, though.

[Edited at 2021-02-10 09:41 GMT]


Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Elena Feriani
Laura Kingdon
Renate Schipper
 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:44
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Does the name of the client start with an 'A'? Feb 10, 2021

If yes, then I saw them on Linkedin yesterday. If no, then there are more weirdos around.

Anyhow, in my humble opinion, this grid is unacceptable.


Renate Schipper
 
Thomas Pfann
Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Check how much difference it makes Feb 10, 2021

Dan Lucas wrote:

In theory you could go back and analyse a few past projects with these two discount matrices to see if it makes much difference



That's what I would do first. Check if it makes much of a difference. If it does, you could also consider agreeing to the grid but raising your base rate at the same time.


Christine Andersen
Rachel Waddington
Dr. Matthias Schauen
Renate Schipper
 
Renée van Bijsterveld
Renée van Bijsterveld  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 19:44
Member (2007)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Almost the same new grid Feb 10, 2021

Locked segment: 0% of word rate
Context match: 0%
Repetitions: 10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 20%
85-94%: 35%
75-84%: 35%
50-74%: 100%

Of course you can set a higher rate or say you don't agree, but I'm afraid it's mostly take it or leave it.

[Bijgewerkt op 2021-02-10 12:25 GMT]


 
Michael Newton
Michael Newton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:44
Japanese to English
+ ...
TM Discounts Feb 11, 2021

They are your favorite client but apparently you are not their favorite translator.

Rachel Waddington
Chris Says Bye
Adieu
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Juggernaut Feb 12, 2021

Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:

Locked segment: 0% of word rate
Context match: 0%
Repetitions: 10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 20%
85-94%: 35%
75-84%: 35%
50-74%: 100%


This is exactly the same grid I received earlier this month from a client. And...

Robert Rietveld wrote:

Does the name of the client start with an 'A'?


In my case, yes it does! A multinational empire that has been busily gobbling up smaller companies across western Europe over the last year or two, including three companies I had worked for previously. And it seems they don't hang around long before applying their particular kind of money-making tactics. Within just days after one of those three companies was taken over last autumn, its PMs started playing financial hardball with overtures such as "Are you free for this project? I can offer you 50% of your rate...", in the hope that I would take that to mean "we can't offer you more than that". I stood my ground, and lo and behold, they were willing to offer me 100% of my rate after all, but perhaps only because it was ROM-ENG, where they won't be spoilt for choice for native ENG-speaking translators.

Michael Newton wrote:

They are your favorite client but apparently you are not their favorite translator.


This is apparently a mass email to all of their translators, I don't think they have favourites (on the contrary, I get the impression they despise the lot of us equally!) There was no "do you agree to this?" or anything like that, of course, it was simply presented as a fait accompli. Now, do I put up my base rate and risk never hearing from them again? I'll mull over my decision over the weekend. Luckily, they're not a regular client of mine anyway.


Chris Says Bye
Thomas T. Frost
Adieu
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 19:44
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Company beginning with A Feb 12, 2021

Can somebody send me the name of the company please? Thanks.

 
Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
English to Dutch
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you everyone, for all your replies!! Feb 12, 2021

Christine Andersen wrote:

Have you ever put your rates up, or are you still working for the same rate as when you started 10 years ago?


I put them up only once, last year I think it was.

I would ask them whether the new scale is a mistake


I'll do that. I hadn't considered yet it might simply be a typo. I don't think so but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Edited at 2021-02-12 20:28 GMT]


 
Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:44
English to Dutch
TOPIC STARTER
Amount of low matches varies Feb 12, 2021

Samuel Murray wrote:

Well, if this is non-negotiable, then you're going to have to accept the new rates sheet. But I agree that it is risky to accept 25% for the lower matches, especially if you're going to be getting a lot of them. If you look at your previous work for this client, do you typically get a sizeable amount of low fuzzy matches?


It depends... But I did compare both scales for a number of projects, and even if they contained a lot of Context Matches (which I had to skip and didn't get paid for until now) and a low number of low fuzzy matches, I was still off better with the old scale.

PS. Your post got truncated because you used a < character, and ProZ.com's 20-year old forum software considers that to be the start of code. People who press the Quote button can still see the entire post, though.



Aha! That's good to know. 2nd post got cut off again, right after the wretched new scale


 
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A favourite client asks for new, much bigger TM discounts







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