| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Being Wise about security Thread poster: Philip Lees
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I know that several of my colleagues here have used the services of Wise (formerly TransferWise) to move money between different currencies, and may even do so on a regular basis, as I have done. For many years now, they have offered an easy currency conversion service that costs considerably less than doing it directly through the banking system.
So I thought I should pass on the information that Wise has now introduced new security measures: specifically, identity verification usi... See more I know that several of my colleagues here have used the services of Wise (formerly TransferWise) to move money between different currencies, and may even do so on a regular basis, as I have done. For many years now, they have offered an easy currency conversion service that costs considerably less than doing it directly through the banking system.
So I thought I should pass on the information that Wise has now introduced new security measures: specifically, identity verification using an official identity document.
When applying to make a transfer, you will now be asked to upload a picture of your passport or other ID document, and a picture of yourself. This requires the use of a smartphone.
I don't have a smartphone. According to the site, it's possible to do this verification on a PC, using a webcam, but I was not able to accomplish this.
The other thing is that should you need to contact customer support, as I did, you will be answered by an AI bot. I suspected this from the start, and some test correspondence I did today confirmed it, as the reply I received was totally inappropriate and could not have been generated by a human.
What's more, Wise's ideas about their "improved" security measures include the following:
1. You don’t necessarily need to use your own device to take the photos. If your friend or family can provide you with a laptop or smart device.
So their idea of improving security is for me to use another person's computer to verify my identity and get access to their system.
Even worse is :
2. Additionally It might be best if you go to a local community center or library – they can likely lend you a device and might even help you take the photos.
So they're suggesting I should carry out this verification in a public place, with the assistance of a person I don't know.
Maybe I should do all my on-line banking in public.
I have sent these observations to Wise, but I thought I should pass on the information to any interested parties here. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Novian Cahyadi 
Indonesia
Local time: 23:48
Member (Apr 2024)
English to Indonesian
Until recently, PayPal disallowed using special characters in passwords. That means you couldn't comply with NIST's security standards.
Security has always been the weakest in financial sector. Ironic.
[Edited at 2024-10-31 12:19 GMT]
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I personally only used Wise once when my daughter was living in Mexico and I wanted to send her a birthday present. Recently, I've noticed that some of my customers who used to pay me with Wise have switched to other systems. Now I realise why...
| | | | | Nothing to be alarmed about | Oct 31 |
They have requested such verification from me twice over the years, but not each time you make a transfer. The first time, the app function didn't work on my old smartphone, so I managed to do it on the computer or via e-mail to support. On the new smartphone, it was done very quickly. They have to 'know their customer' under money-laundering and other regulations.
But I have to say it's amazing you manage to get things done without a smartphone. Maybe you should consider whether it... See more They have requested such verification from me twice over the years, but not each time you make a transfer. The first time, the app function didn't work on my old smartphone, so I managed to do it on the computer or via e-mail to support. On the new smartphone, it was done very quickly. They have to 'know their customer' under money-laundering and other regulations.
But I have to say it's amazing you manage to get things done without a smartphone. Maybe you should consider whether it's time to get one, as so many things require a smartphone to work today. My personal view is that one would just make things unnecessarily difficult by not having a smartphone today. Same as if you didn't have a phone or a computer at all and relied on paper for all communication.
I have always been able to get support from a human via their help section. Go through the help topics until you get the option to send them an email. Maybe their chat function is AI-driven. I don't think I have tried chat on Wise.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary here and see no reason to be alarmed. I use Wise as my financial hub for both personal and business accounts, to get paid locally in USD, GBP and EUR, for direct debit in EUR and for debit card payments in different currencies and even get interest paid every month, so I shall not complain. Portuguese banks demand over €8 a month in account maintenance fees for very little, so on the personal side, I only have a minimum-service account in Portugal (just a few cents in fees every month) and then use Wise and my old German account (free) for everything that doesn't require local Portuguese payment facilities. I change GBP and USD to EUR when the exchange rate is in my favour. You can gain a few hundred euros a year that way, enough to pay more than one basic smartphone. ▲ Collapse
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| I'm a regular user... | Oct 31 |
... and the only time I had to provide this information was when I opened the account. If they required everyone to do this every time they made a transfer, they'd be out of business.
| | | | Novian Cahyadi
Indonesia
Local time: 23:48
Member (Apr 2024)
English to Indonesian
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Recently, I've noticed that some of my customers who used to pay me with Wise have switched to other systems.
It's only a matter of time for other similar services to follow suit. World governments really don't want anyone making transactions to fund terrorism or money-laundering activities.
But I think that's not the point Philip is making. It's the ill-advised instructions that bothered him… and me. Not that I expect financial institutions to have proper cyber hygiene to begin with.
[Edited at 2024-10-31 17:19 GMT]
| | | | Philip Lees
Greece
Local time: 18:48
Greek to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
But I have to say it's amazing you manage to get things done without a smartphone. Maybe you should consider whether it's time to get one, as so many things require a smartphone to work today.
I get along quite well without a smartphone, thank you Thomas. I tried one almost ten years ago and once the novelty wore off I found I didn't really get along with it. I found it awkward to hold, cumbersome to use and in particular trying to type anything on that touch screen with my fat, stumpy fingers was a nightmare. I do much better on my little Nokia dumbphone, where at least the keyboard provides some haptic feedback.
I gave the smartphone away after a while and I haven't missed it.
I have always been able to get support from a human via their help section. Go through the help topics until you get the option to send them an email. Maybe their chat function is AI-driven. I don't think I have tried chat on Wise.
This correspondence I had with them was via email. I avoided the web chat, expecting that it would be a complete waste of time, as it has been when I've tried to use it on other sites.
You can judge for yourself. The mail I sent them as a bot trap yesterday morning was as follows:
Here are two logical propositions:
1. Your website's verification system requires the use of a smartphone.
2. I do not have a smartphone and do not intend to get one.
What logical conclusion can you draw from these two propositions?
Note that this was a continuation of my earlier correspondence about difficulties getting a picture of my passport.
In response, I got eighteen lines of boilerplate text about 2-step verification, presumably triggered by the numbered items in my own mail. (I have no problem with the 2-step verification, receiving a code on my dumb Nokia without any difficulty.)
After that there were a few lines addressing my actual issue, and giving the advice I quoted in my original post.
I don't see anything out of the ordinary here and see no reason to be alarmed.
I find their advice to either use somebody else's computer/phone or to do the verification in a public place quite alarming enough.
It's a pity, because I've used (Transfer)Wise a lot over the years and I had no plans to stop doing so. However, they seem to have kicked me out.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 19:48
Member
English to Turkish
| I would literally pay money to be able to use Wise | Nov 1 |
Like most good things in life, Wise left this sh*thole of a county last year, leaving me totally at the mercy of Payoneer (the only online payment method available to Turkish freelancers), who's been raping me financially ever since... At a conservative estimate, I've had to pay somewhere between 1500-2000 EUR in fees since August 2023. I would've paid less than half of that had I been using Wise.
I toyed with the idea of opening a company in the UK, and then declaring it defunct once I'd ... See more Like most good things in life, Wise left this sh*thole of a county last year, leaving me totally at the mercy of Payoneer (the only online payment method available to Turkish freelancers), who's been raping me financially ever since... At a conservative estimate, I've had to pay somewhere between 1500-2000 EUR in fees since August 2023. I would've paid less than half of that had I been using Wise.
I toyed with the idea of opening a company in the UK, and then declaring it defunct once I'd conned Wise, or moving to Uruguay or S. Africa and then returning here once I'd convinced them about the address change. I entertained a number of other brilliant ideas like that, but in the end caved in to getting screwed by Payoneer.
If Wise had asked me to send them a picture of my arse for identification purposes, I wouldn't have hesitated to do so.
As for smart phones, I'm not particularly crazy about them. But I must say that getting email alerts has been a 'game changer' for me. Since I haven't found those elusive, generously paying 'boutique agencies' in rural Denmark or France that dutifully wait for you to reply to their emails for days on end, I can't imagine being in this business without getting those email alerts, which enables me to hear the sound of an incoming email from another room. ▲ Collapse
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Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 17:48
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Baran Keki wrote:
Since I haven't found those elusive, generously paying 'boutique agencies' in rural Denmark or France that dutifully wait for you to reply to their emails for days on end
I work with several French agencies that you probably would describe as 'boutique agencies', but one of my strengths is that I always respond within minutes to any job offer I receive. I'm pretty sure they all would have been long gone if I would consistently wait for hours to respond. No-one is irreplaceable, boutique agencies or not. You need to sell yourself every single day and being very responsive is one of the ways to do that. I think it's a misconception that there are translators out there that can afford to basically do whatever they like.
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Philip Lees wrote:
I get along quite well without a smartphone, thank you Thomas. I tried one almost ten years ago and once the novelty wore off I found I didn't really get along with it. I found it awkward to hold, cumbersome to use and in particular trying to type anything on that touch screen with my fat, stumpy fingers was a nightmare. I do much better on my little Nokia dumbphone, where at least the keyboard provides some haptic feedback.
Typing is slower than it is on a keyboard, but there is the alternative of sliding a finger without lifting it and using voice typing. You could get a secondary SIM card so you can keep using your dumb phone but still have a smartphone when it is needed.
Government and bank authentication systems increasingly require a smartphone, sometimes with an NFC reader (e.g. Denmark and the UK), to let you into their digital systems, so life without a smartphone is becoming increasingly difficult, whether we like it or not.
Two-factor authentication with an SMS code works on dumb phones but is not nearly as secure as app-based authentication. It has been hacked in various ways. I would expect that old authentication method to be phased out slowly.
About your email support experience, support agents are often under pressure to solve a certain number of tickets per hour, so they don't read and understand users' emails properly and then copy and paste some boilerplate text. Some email support systems now use AI to generate a suggested answer, but the support agent should still check it. Sometimes, unfortunately, we have to keep insisting a few times with support agents and ask them to please read the problem description before they answer. In case you have run into a particularly dim agent, you could try to open a new ticket, hoping a more competent agent will answer.
I find their advice to either use somebody else's computer/phone or to do the verification in a public place quite alarming enough.
If you install the app, login, complete the authentication, close the app and uninstall it yourself, I don't see any problem. Danish authorities suggested a similar method for users having to enrol in the new public authentication system.
| | | | Ana Vozone
Local time: 16:48
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Totally put off recently | Nov 2 |
when I tried to register with Wise, due precisely to the official ID requirement.
I simply gave up and will have to continue with Paypal, being charged nearly 10% for abusive exchange rates and fees. Contacting them is virtually impossible...
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:48
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Be pleasant to work with - and careful with your passwords! | Nov 2 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
You need to sell yourself every single day and being very responsive is one of the ways to do that.
Completely agree with this. Be responsive, be helpful, do revision work promptly if requested, don't get snippy. I would like to think these are the basics, but I get complimented on replying within minutes frequently enough for me to think that some translators take their time responding to inquiries.
When a client is trying to place a job and you cannot take it on, it is especially important to let them know as soon as possible so they can move on to somebody else on their list. Nobody wants to be kept waiting for five hours to be told "Sorry, no availability." If I'm out of the office I respond immediately with a message to that effect, telling them when I will be able to look at the job. Can there really be people who say things like "Oh, I don't like losing my focus while working, so I reply to client emails when I have some spare time"?
I think it's a misconception that there are translators out there that can afford to basically do whatever they like.
I think I'm doing reasonably well in my particular line of work, but I have never been (to the best of my knowledge) complacent and I also agree that it is likely very rare among successful translators. I would bet that those that become complacent rapidly cease to be successful. There are always others who would be happy to take on your work.
On the subject of Wise, Japanese clients seem generally uninterested in opening the Wise accounts that would enable them to send payments to me. Only a single, tiny client has ever used it. It was very quick and cheap.
On the subject of security, I received an email with a dodgy link from a project manager at one of my agencies the other day, and the "respond to" address was that of the agency so clearly the account had been compromised. I emailed a different project manager at the same agency to let them know, and sure enough it had been hacked. Got an email from the owner of the agency thanking me a few hours later! So it would seem that some people are still not adhering to basic standards of password management and the like.
Regards,
Dan
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Baran Keki wrote:
Like most good things in life, Wise left this sh*thole of a county last year, leaving me totally at the mercy of Payoneer (the only online payment method available to Turkish freelancers), who's been raping me financially ever since... At a conservative estimate, I've had to pay somewhere between 1500-2000 EUR in fees since August 2023. I would've paid less than half of that had I been using Wise.
Doesn't sound like Turkish delight but more like the Danish meaning of 'lokum' (a somewhat vulgar term for 'toilet'). Going cold turkey in the sense of Wise leaving would not have been nice.
Have you considered whether setting up a limited company in an EU member state would be feasible? I don't know which country would be most suitable, but ChatGPT can probably provide some guidance. It wasn't difficult in Portugal, but you should count about €125 a month for an accountant and €8 for a company bank account (the banks here like money), which you'd need for any tax payments. There's also an annual company registry fee and the cost of tax-approved software for invoicing. It might end up costing as much as your Payoneer fees. Maybe there are cheaper – and closer – countries.
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