Requesting askers to share answers found elsewhere under KudoZ rule 3.7 Thread poster: ibz
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ibz 
Local time: 10:56
English to German
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It seems that one is not allowed to ask an asker who has closed his/her question with «Answer found elsewhere» to please share the answer found. According to ProZ support «Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited.»
If I ask for an answer to a question that I participated in discussing, ... See more It seems that one is not allowed to ask an asker who has closed his/her question with «Answer found elsewhere» to please share the answer found. According to ProZ support «Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited.»
If I ask for an answer to a question that I participated in discussing, it is out of professional interest. It remains to be seen whether the asker will then provide it. But we must be allowed to ask – and we also must be allowed to ask for more context which, according to this rule, might also be prohibited. Deleting/hiding such discussion posts doesn't make much sense to me (overreaction?). I therefore suggest changing this rule or at least applying it with a sense of proportion.
Thank you.
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2024-07-01 20:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | ibz
Local time: 10:56
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for unlocking this thread, Jared!
| | | | | Rule clash and translation | Jul 1 |
ibz wrote:
It seems that one is not allowed to ask an asker who has closed his/her question with «Answer found elsewhere» to please share the answer found. According to ProZ support «Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited.»
If I ask for an answer to a question that I participated in discussing, it is out of professional interest. It remains to be seen whether the asker will then provide it. But we must be allowed to ask – and we also must be allowed to ask for more context which, according to this rule, might also be prohibited.
By asking the first question, you're essentially just reminding people of KudoZ rule 2.5:
"Glossary entries should be made upon the close of the question.
At the time a question is closed, an asker is expected to make a glossary entry--with source and target terms both in dictionary form--using the form provided. Questions that do not lend themselves to inclusion in a glossary are exempted."
https://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=kudoz_asking&set_site_lang=eng
The context bit is part of the guidelines found at the bottom of the list:
"'Help' KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help after having searched the KudoZ term search and other resources. When asking a question, sufficient context should be provided. Even when there is no other context, the subject area and type of document should be indicated. It can be helpful to enter sentences or paragraphs where the term in question occurs."
So I don't see why doing either should be prohibited. The rule you quoted is a bit like rule 3.4: "The only acceptable means of commenting on another's answer is by using the peer comment feature."
Both make limited sense, the latter because (among other things) the peer comment feature allows only a certain number of characters, often too little to thoroughly debunk any misguided attempt at an answer and certainly not helpful in conjunction with rule 3.5. ("Backing up peer comments with references, in general, is encouraged." - Guess no one thought about the fact that a reference link might be excruciatingly long these days? And no, using bit.ly or other websites to shorten them is not a good idea, because some people won't click on these links, fearing they contain some malicious code).
@Staff: When I set the language to German, the guidelines (2.9), as well as rules 3.6 and 3.7, are in English only. Everything else is in German. Also, and that's pretty confusing, IMO, the order in which the rules appear seems to differ in German and English.
[Edited at 2024-07-01 22:21 GMT]
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| Thanks Björn and ibz | Jul 2 |
for pointing out such stuff. When I try to, I end up being vetted/hidden.
Must learn how to use words more wisely/politely/simply, I suppose. \\Posted at 02.05. on July 2 - wonder when it appears\\
| | | | ibz
Local time: 10:56
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
@Björn:
The title of my original post was changed so my post might not seem so clear anymore.
The problem is that during the past few weeks, quite a number of disagrees / comments / discussion entries have been hidden or deleted with reference to the cited KudoZ rule (3.7) which seems to be an overkill to me.
I just make an argument for not using these rules as a means of censorship or for changing them so that a discussion of KudoZ questions makes sense and a professio... See more @Björn:
The title of my original post was changed so my post might not seem so clear anymore.
The problem is that during the past few weeks, quite a number of disagrees / comments / discussion entries have been hidden or deleted with reference to the cited KudoZ rule (3.7) which seems to be an overkill to me.
I just make an argument for not using these rules as a means of censorship or for changing them so that a discussion of KudoZ questions makes sense and a professional debate is possible. I also think that askers can be asked to post their chosen answer, even if a glossary entry is not possible. This has happened to me several times and I usually make an effort to post the answer in the discussion anyway. After all, others have made an effort to help me and are obviously interested in the question. ▲ Collapse
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Cilian O'Tuama wrote:
for pointing out such stuff. When I try to, I end up being vetted/hidden.
Must learn how to use words more wisely/politely/simply, I suppose. \\Posted at 02.05. on July 2 - wonder when it appears\\
01.05 on July 2, or an hour before you wrote it
Having been in a similar position a few times, I agree that it is frustrating but would also say that it's probably best not to poke the bear.
Back on topic, I have asked people a few times to share answers found elsewhere without this prompting any administrative action. It must just be an overzealous mod in your pair.
I think it's rude not to share an answer found elsewhere when people have spent time trying to help, and I wouldn't hesitate to say so if one was not forthcoming after such a request.
[Edited at 2024-07-02 09:16 GMT]
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Christopher Schröder wrote:
I think it's rude not to share an answer found elsewhere when people have spent time trying to help, and I wouldn't hesitate to say so if one was not forthcoming after such a request.
Many people have asked, myself included, that the option "answer found elsewhere" without telling what the answer is should be abolished straightaway. No answer from the staff.
It doesn't make any sense and is outrageous for everyone who has posted an answer or simply happens to be interested in the question!
In this way, the whole question ends up to be a bad joke as people racked their brain and spent their time in vain without having at least the satisfaction to know the answer found by the asker.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-07-02 15:27 GMT]
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| It depends on your time zone! :-) | Jul 2 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
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01.05 on July 2, or an hour before you wrote it
For me (CET) it's ok.
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 02:56
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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When an asker chooses to close a question with “answer found elsewhere”, an automatic request to provide the answer found for the benefit of future askers. This shouldn’t be too hard to implement.
| | | | ibz
Local time: 10:56
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Not exactly my point | Jul 2 |
Michele Fauble wrote:
When an asker chooses to close a question with “answer found elsewhere”, an automatic request to provide the answer found for the benefit of future askers. This shouldn’t be too hard to implement.
Yes, absolutely, but my point (made clear in the original post title) was to stop the overzealous use of KudoZ rules. Comments/agrees/disagrees should be allowed if they are not insulting.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:56
Serbian to English
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| Problem being that ... | Jul 4 |
ibz wrote:
Michele Fauble wrote:
When an asker chooses to close a question with “answer found elsewhere”, an automatic request to provide the answer found for the benefit of future askers. This shouldn’t be too hard to implement.
Yes, absolutely, but my point (made clear in the original post title) was to stop the overzealous use of KudoZ rules. Comments/agrees/disagrees should be allowed if they are not insulting.
Agree, but by some people ANY disagreement is taken as an insult, so these "overzealous moderators" are maybe under pressure from "oversensitive" people, who want to stay in the kitchen, but can't stand the heat.
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ibz
Local time: 10:56
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
I know exactly what you mean. Some people also get very upset and feel insulted if you don't chose their solution - another reaction I don't get at all. Moderators should not let themselves be used by individuals for their "private wars". Be less of a snowflake and act more like a professional, that's what I would appreciate from KudoZ contributors and moderators alike.
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