| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | New Year Resolution - raise your lowest agency rate? Thread poster: Christine Andersen
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
...............I don't want to live and work under the conditions that are common in developing countries.
I think that's the plan.
| | | | Elina Sellgren 
Finland
Local time: 13:48
Member (2013)
English to Finnish
+ ...
KateKaminski wrote:
An argument for lower rates is that translators have to compete with people in countries with lower living costs.
But why on earth do people in such countries charge less? Maybe you can buy a loaf of bread for $0.05 in country X, but undercutting other translators is surely not necessary. Why not charge the same as someone living in the USA and buy yourself a large mansion with pool and vacations in the Bahamas?
Good question.. I suppose they are so used to the different prices (of everything in their country) that the rates that are asked in more expensive countries seem astronomically high to them and they simply do not realize they could ask that much? But it's no real excuse since with the internet, you can easily just look around and see what the higher-end rates are.
| | | | Strastran (X)
France
Local time: 12:48
French to English
+ ...
I'm fully behind this idea, however in practice I find that, if I suggest increasing my rates, my customers simply refuse, even with a fair, well-presented justification from me.
Also, when I take on new customers and suggest a higher rate, I simply get less work from them, or even none at all.
| | | | Kate Tomkins
Local time: 11:48
Member (2012)
German to English
Marius Reika wrote:
In a country where 100 usd (or even less) is an average monthly wage, a translator working for 0.05 usd and doing 20 000 words per month will get 1000 usd. Is this bad?
Hi Marius,
What would someone living in the USA be paid for translating 1000 words from Lithuanian into English in a specialized subject (which I see you do)? It's probably not a very well-known language, I imagine it must be at least the standard rate for translation, if not more. Maybe USD 0.10 per word? I don't know.
So if you live in Lithuania, why not charge the same? After all, you are providing exactly the same service. It does not matter to the client where you live.
Sometimes I think about moving to Thailand, living by the beach and translating while I enjoy the view. Would I reduce my rates because my living costs are 1/10 of what they used to be? I doubt it!
[Edited at 2013-12-03 09:28 GMT]
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Kate Tomkins
Local time: 11:48
Member (2012)
German to English
| Working together | Dec 3, 2013 |
Patrick Stenson wrote:
I'm fully behind this idea, however in practice I find that, if I suggest increasing my rates, my customers simply refuse, even with a fair, well-presented justification from me.
Also, when I take on new customers and suggest a higher rate, I simply get less work from them, or even none at all.
But if we all do it, they will have to agree to increased rates, or have no one to do the translations....
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 12:48
French to German
+ ...
| The problem is... | Dec 3, 2013 |
KateKaminski wrote:
But if we all do it, they will have to agree to increased rates, or have no one to do the translations....
... that not everybody will do it, often simply because they can't afford to do it, I suppose.
What do you do if you need a certain amount of money to support yourself or even a family?
Of course it's easy to say "Just say no" if you have someone else's income to fall back on if necessary, but if you don't, then what do you do?
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:48
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Living hand to mouth | Dec 3, 2013 |
Patrick Stenson wrote:
I'm fully behind this idea, however in practice I find that, if I suggest increasing my rates, my customers simply refuse, even with a fair, well-presented justification from me.
Also, when I take on new customers and suggest a higher rate, I simply get less work from them, or even none at all.
Patrick, if that logic actually applied we'd struggle to remain in business for more than a few years. Of course there will be clients who will belly-ache and they may go elsewhere, but there will always be others to replace them. Your client list will not be the same year in year out. I have a regular handful (perhaps 10) that have been with me for well over a decade, the rest come and go.
That low cost of living in country X may not look so low if you forget to factor in other essential costs. Translators are obliged to command higher rates in countries where welfare systems are funded through taxation. The bonus is free healthcare or education, for example. Are translators who are charging pennies actually putting money aside for this, as well as holidays, pensions, savings or something to live off should they fall ill?
| | | | Christine Andersen
Denmark
Local time: 12:48
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Keep trying anyway | Dec 3, 2013 |
Patrick Stenson wrote:
I'm fully behind this idea, however in practice I find that, if I suggest increasing my rates, my customers simply refuse, even with a fair, well-presented justification from me.
Also, when I take on new customers and suggest a higher rate, I simply get less work from them, or even none at all.
Sometimes clients do come back later, and pay the higher rate. As mentioned above, the idea is that we should all do it. And keep doing it.
Sometimes you have to try two or three times, but the idea is to let clients know you mean it.
Few other professions or trades would accept clients coming and dictating prices. Many cultures accept or even expect bargaining, so buyers deliberately offer low prices in some cases. So why should they laugh all the way to the bank at translators who will deliver, just for the privilege of working?
The trouble is that in practice there is very little correlation between rate and quality. So if they can get it cheap, they won't pay more.
If we have to keep explaining WHY we derserve higher rates, then so be it!
Don't argue with the PMs who often cannot do anything about rates.
Go to the decision makers, and send a mail saying that they are your lowest-paying clients, and others pay you XXX - name a realistic rate.
So you would like an increas to YYY (a rate between XXX and what this client is currently paying you).
If it doesn't work first time, never mind, send another mail in a few months, or send one to another low-paying client.
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Strastran (X)
France
Local time: 12:48
French to English
+ ...
| Done all that | Dec 3, 2013 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
Patrick, if that logic actually applied we'd struggle to remain in business for more than a few years. Of course there will be clients who will belly-ache and they may go elsewhere, but there will always be others to replace them. Your client list will not be the same year in year out. I have a regular handful (perhaps 10) that have been with me for well over a decade, the rest come and go.
That low cost of living in country X may not look so low if you forget to factor in other essential costs. Translators are obliged to command higher rates in countries where welfare systems are funded through taxation. The bonus is free healthcare or education, for example. Are translators who are charging pennies actually putting money aside for this, as well as holidays, pensions, savings or something to live off should they fall ill?
Christine Andersen wrote:
Sometimes clients do come back later, and pay the higher rate. As mentioned above, the idea is that we should all do it. And keep doing it.
Sometimes you have to try two or three times, but the idea is to let clients know you mean it.
Few other professions or trades would accept clients coming and dictating prices. Many cultures accept or even expect bargaining, so buyers deliberately offer low prices in some cases. So why should they laugh all the way to the bank at translators who will deliver, just for the privilege of working?
The trouble is that in practice there is very little correlation between rate and quality. So if they can get it cheap, they won't pay more.
If we have to keep explaining WHY we derserve higher rates, then so be it!
Don't argue with the PMs who often cannot do anything about rates.
Go to the decision makers, and send a mail saying that they are your lowest-paying clients, and others pay you XXX - name a realistic rate.
So you would like an increas to YYY (a rate between XXX and what this client is currently paying you).
If it doesn't work first time, never mind, send another mail in a few months, or send one to another low-paying client.
I've done all of those. I agree with everything above, I'm simply reporting my own experience in my eight years as a translator. I have plenty of work, so seeking new clients is something I do now and again. But I rarely hear back after registering and if I do it's to complain that my rate is too high. Too bad for them, I say.
As for actual increases, I agree with all the theory. Am I expecting to be on the same rate in ten years? Twenty years? Of course not, but in practice all attempts to argue this position have been met with 'sorry but..'.
[Edited at 2013-12-03 11:15 GMT]
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I have just raised my lowest agency rate. I will probably not work for them any more, but who cares.
The world is full of potential new clients.
Happy new year,
Paola
| | | | | Still having (more than) enough work | Jan 20, 2014 |
I raised my rates for one of my lowest paying agencies and started to make it a rule to negotiate prices and deadlines with another. Haven't heard from the first one (yet) and am being paid substantially more from the second, while still having more work available than I can handle.
It will be a good year!
Best regards,
Anna
| | | | | The time value of money | Jan 20, 2014 |
Thayenga wrote:
This is one important factor in freelancing. It's not only the rate itself, but also timely payments. If a client offers a high, or at least a good rate, but then takes "forever" to pay, it has a vital impact on the freelancer's life.
This is one aspect that may change radically upon crossing borders.
Until globalization turns our entire planet into a "developed country", there will be striking differences in terms of the time value of money in different places.
Using this table of today, I'll pick four examples of monthly interest rates:
USA: 0.25%
Euro Zone: 0.50%
Brazil: 10.50%
Argentina: 12.24
If a client in the USA hires me to do a job with payment in 30 days, my rate will theoretically (i.e., if I were a bank) include at least 10.5% in financial cost. It is tantamount to that US client getting a loan in Brazil at 10.5%/mo, while they can have it at home for 0.25%/mo.
Bottom line is that if that US client doesn't have cash at hand to pay me COD and, in order to do so, they get a loan to be paid in 42 (= 10.5/0.25) monthly installments (OK, I'm not compounding interest, just to keep it simple), they'll break even.
In Europe, 60-day payment terms are quite common. Does it explain why Euro interest rates are exactly twice the USD's? Or the other way around? I wouldn't know.
In Argentina, the situation is somewhat worse than in Brazil. This explains why an agency proposed me constant work, and they wouldn't care much about my rates - as long as within reasonable limits - if I agreed to get paid 60 days after every month end. They were trying to indirectly secure a loan from me, quite explainable.
So agencies that have carved in stone their policy of paying in "X" days after delivery, in view of globalization, i.e. translators scattered everywhere, should check their policies as, depending on where each of their translators lives, they may be incurring unnecessary financial costs.
My 2013 (sic! - one year ago) New Year Resolution was to implement discounts for faster payments, as well as to prioritize jobs based on shortest payment term being served first. In a nutshell: "Need it done quickly? Pay quickly!"
This enabled me to get rid of rush surcharges, which resulted in more havoc to my schedule than actual profit.
The system has worked so well throughtout 2013, that I have made it permanent However I am fully aware that it relies on my domestic interest rates being way higher than my clients'; it should be revised if the situation ever changes (unlikely, with the kind of available politicians/potential candidates available in Brazil).
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| No such rate | Jan 20, 2014 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
.....why not simply raise the lowest rate you will work for...
In my case there is no such rate. All my translating work is done for a standard rate because it's all done to the same high standard and my costs do not vary.
| | | | | My very point | Jan 20, 2014 |
Tom in London wrote:
In my case there is no such rate. All my translating work is done for a standard rate because it's all done to the same high standard and my costs do not vary.
Tom, you appear to be in the UK where, according to that same table, monthly interest rate is 0.50%/mo.
So if a client pays you, say, one month later, instead of receiving £1,000 worth, you'll receive £5 less, which would be splitting hairs, if compared to bank fees, etc. Apart from possible cash flow issues, it is not so relevant.
Meanwhile, here in Brazil, if I receive £1,000 one month later, at 10.5% interest rates, I'll be getting only £895 worth, a significant difference.
Bottom line is that one-size-fits-all for payment terms cannot apply worldwide.
I also work all the time to the same high standards, and my costs don't vary either, so my translation rate shouldn't change. However the cost of longer term payments changes... a lot!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Tom, you appear to be in the UK where, according to that same table, monthly interest rate is 0.50%/mo.
Yes, José, but that is the Bank of England rate, which is being kept artifically low and does not reflect the real rate of inflation, which currently is somewhere between 2% and 4% depending on how it's calculated.
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