Nov 23, 2021 23:08
2 yrs ago
41 viewers *
English term

but

English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Americal detective novel
I don't quite understand the logical connection between the parts of the sentence "I don't believe in bad luck-unlucky thirteen and all that-***but*** with my client's permission I'm making a clock that will um flap its wings like a bat upon every hour." in the following text: (from a mystery novel set in New York and Philadelphia in 1702):

"Matthew took stock of another shelf that held a variety of clockfaces in both metal and wood. "How many of them have you made?"
"My clocks? Twelve. Working on my thirteenth. I make three or four a year, depending on the complexity of what the client wants."
"What is that ?" Matthew pointed to the half wagon wheel with the bat wings.
"Part of the inner workings of my thirteenth. I don't believe in bad luck-unlucky thirteen and all that-but with my client's permission I'm making a clock that will um flap its wings like a bat upon every hour. What you see diagrammed there are the rods that the hammers will hit to cause the wings to flap. I'm thinking of creating the entire thing out of black cloth draped around a wooden frame. With a black clockface and possibly red enamel numerals. My client, fortunately, is very open to my designs and already owns two of my creations."
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Tony M

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

Yvonne Gallagher Nov 24, 2021:
@ Tony @ Asker Not sure Tony it's all that clearcut? The "but" refers to the client giving permission to make the bat clock because the client "fortunately, is very open to my designs" and already has 2 "creations". Does the "fortunately" imply that the designs are always so weird he's lucky this particular client trusts him so gives him carte blanche to do whatever he likes?
You ask why not "and"? A pertinent question.
Tony has substituted "so" which is similar to "and" here and makes the 2 parts of the sentence run into each other with no "but/however" aspect. Nevertheless, there is a doubt raised of some sort by using "but". Does the client know that this is the 13th clock and gave permission anyway to do one with (bad luck) bats? Or did he have to persuade the client to give permission for this design? Or is he having doubts himself?
I think if you can use the equivalent of "however" in Russian, keeping it as close as possible to ST, it will retain this doubt or ambiguity.
Tony M Nov 24, 2021:
@ Asker Because I'm not superstitious, the fact it is the thirteenth clock I've made is of no importance, so I'm just mentioning it here for the sake of it.
The only element of 'but' about it is perhaps that his customer (who for all we know might be superstitious!) doesn't mind having the thirteenth clock.
David Hollywood Nov 24, 2021:
just means "however" or "regardless"
Tomasso Nov 23, 2021:
anyway, incidentaly, Thirteen is supposedly bad luck, the author says he does not beleive in bad luck...

restatement.....I do not beleive in bad luck, AND IT HAPPENS, IT IS OF INTEREST THAT, IT JUST SO HAPPENS, (adding enphasis, use of the word but is basically the same as AND, except he is making a point, is adding emphsis to the fact that IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE, the 13th clock he is making, i would consider it a not being perfect usuage of Enlgish, but many people when talking quickley do not use words precisely, and that is O K .

only a suggestion....https://www.linguee.com/russian-english/translation/несмотря...

несмотря none the less, despite the fact, not withstanding, regardless of being not beleiving in bad luck,
I am not superstitious, but , but regardless of whether there is such a thing as bad luck слово имеет много значений, может означать только, и, за исключением ,, несмотря на факт (извините, если я написал слишком много?)
Alexander Alexandrov (asker) Nov 23, 2021:
Why "but" Why "but" and not "and"?

Responses

+3
57 mins
Selected

regardless

He does not beleive in bad luck and is not afraid of the number 13

It is my 13th clock BUT REGARDLESS, BAD LUCK OR NO BAD LUCK,

anyway, and what more, whatever I am going to make a 13th clock.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2021-11-24 00:07:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.linguee.com/english-russian/search?source=auto&q...

https://www.linguee.com/russian-english/translation/несмотря...
Example sentence:

в любом случае There is no such thing as bad luck but, regardless....

But you know i found my self making the 13th clock anyway.

Peer comment(s):

agree David Hollywood
2 hrs
СПАСИБО Gracias
agree philgoddard
15 hrs
agree Nayla Nicole Arpigiani Ganora
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Tomasso! "
+5
1 hr

however...

yes, he says he doesn't believe in "bad luck-unlucky thirteen and all that-"

HOWEVER, now he is working on his 13th clock and not an ordinary clock but one that has bat wings flapping every hour, draped in black and with red numerals

Bats are considered to bring bad luck in a lot of places and of course they are associated with the black/darkness of night and vampires drawing blood, hence the referenced black cloth and red of the numerals

He doesn't actually say that his client is superstitious or wary about this being such a strange clock for the 13th one. No, the client is supportive, and trusts him to design away.

However/but, it seems he may not be so sure after all he is doing the right thing and is possibly asking for trouble by making such a design on this 13th ("unlucky" number) clock. Perhaps he is asking for bad luck to fall upon them both?

So, I think the but/however is basically him saying "I'm not superstitious BUT maybe I'm taking too much of a chance?"
Peer comment(s):

agree Oleg Muzhdabaev :
1 hr
Thanks:-)
agree Jennifer Levey
1 hr
Thanks:-)
agree David Hollywood
2 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
2 days 15 hrs
Thanks Tina:-)
agree Anastasia Kalantzi
4 days
Thanks:-)
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

but

I don't believe in bad luck-unlucky thirteen and all that- (which most people do,) but with my client's permission I'm making a clock that will um flap its wings like a bat upon every hour.

He implied that most people, and probably his clients as well, believed in bad luck.
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search