Sep 22, 2004 11:52
19 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

sign on - sign off

English Art/Literary Linguistics
We have this eternal argument at work: sign on and sign off, all together, hyphenated, two different words? Can someone shed some light on it?
Thanks in advance.

Discussion

Mikhail Kropotov Sep 22, 2004:
I'm not a particularly good linguist, but I think the Russian "thank you" is different from the others. It comes from "spasi Bog" - "may God bless/save you". The more literal "thank you" is "blagodaryu (vas)" but it's not commonly used.
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
Oh, yes! Now I remember having heard it! Thanks; in Spanish we say Gracias, and in French we say Merci, but I guess you already know that...
Mikhail Kropotov Sep 22, 2004:
How about a Kudoz question? Just kidding! :]
Say it like this "spuh-SEE-buh".
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
Please, tell me how it's pronounced.
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
I'm good, eh?
Mikhail Kropotov Sep 22, 2004:
You are welcome and thanks! You puzzled me for a second, I thought to myself, "wait, this isn't an English-Russian question" :=]
And yes, it's perfectly written.
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
I will take SirReal's answer because it's basically Dusty's same answer, but he was the first one to reply. Thanks again, you've been very helpful!
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
In Termium (the data base of the Canadian government) it appears as two separate words, as only one word, and hyphenated with a note saying "officially approved" (I don't know by whom, though...). I think I'll stick to two separate words and use the hyphanated version for nouns.
SirReal, you can also say "before sign off" if you take sign off as a noun, as Dusty explained below. Thanks to you all!
Mikhail Kropotov Sep 22, 2004:
I think in that case it would be a little bit more correct to say "do this before signING off".
Non-ProZ.com Sep 22, 2004:
Kim, what if you nominalize the verb? Sometimes, I see it as "Do this before sign off" (as a noun).

Responses

+2
3 mins
Selected

two separate words

That is the grammatically correct way, though for all intent purposes the hyphenated versions are no worse. But I would stray from "signon" and "signoff", those are not good at all.

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Note added at 5 mins (2004-09-22 11:58:17 GMT)
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That is, if you are talking about them as regular verbs. There are lots of registered names like SignOn, Sign-On, etc.
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Please see my added comment...
5 mins
thanks :] it's a good one :]
agree Tehani
6 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "ñïàñèáî!!! I hope it's well written! "
+2
13 mins

see comment below...

I do, of course, basically agree with both SirReal and Kim; however (isn't there always a 'however' from Dusty?!) ---
there are times when used as a noun that adding the hyphen makes sentence structure clearer. A 'sign-on' can be some kind of codde, passord or whatever that people may use to sign on to some system with, and 'sign-off' is often used as an informal way of saying 'closing formula' either for things like letters, or in more figurative contexts.

I think in these noun cases, the hyphens are at least sometime justified.

"at sign-on" = "at the time of signing on"

Analagous with 'start-up' and 'switch-off', etc. when used as nouns

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Note added at 15 mins (2004-09-22 12:08:16 GMT)
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Oops! That should be code, password and sometimes, of course!

Peer comment(s):

agree Mikhail Kropotov : true, though we have also "startup" as one word - not so with "signon" and "signoff"
1 min
agree Alexander Demyanov
19 mins
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6 mins

no hyphens

I'm only aware of these terms as verbs. I'm going to sign off now. A hyphen is used for compound words: mother-in-law, adjectives before nouns as in "a home-grown tomato",

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Note added at 17 mins (2004-09-22 12:09:37 GMT)
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Another useful \"rule\" for hyphens is \"use hyphens to avoid amibuity.\"
1. He recovered from the shock of losing $10,000.
2. Mrs. Jones re-covered her sofa.

1. Aerobic dancing is good recreation.
2. The novel was a re-creation of his own childhood.

So \"do this before sign-off\" could be the right solution \"to avoid ambiguity.\"
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