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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Acide de soude

English translation:

caustic soda / sodium hydroxide

Added to glossary by Nina Iordache
Jul 26, 2015 15:14
9 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

Acide de soude

French to English Science Cosmetics, Beauty
I am not sure of the correct translation. It is in a context of an artisan soap brand that only use natural (vegetal) products.
Context: Je mélange les huiles avec de l'acide de soude. Ça crée la pâte à savon que je vais verser dans 2 gros moules.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 caustic soda / sodium hydroxide
References
Not my field, but...
caustic soda
Change log

Jul 26, 2015 16:49: writeaway changed "Field" from "Other" to "Science"

Discussion

Sheri P Jul 26, 2015:
végétal Nina, if the soap maker has said that the products are almost all 'végétal' (as you mentioned in Charles's reference comment), I'm wondering if this could mean that they are 'vegan' (no animal fats or other animal products) rather than simply 'natural'. I have come across both 'végétal' and 'végétalien' in French in the sense of 'vegan'.
Charles Davis Jul 26, 2015:
lye As far as I can tell, on both sides of the Atlantic lye can denote any caustic solution derived from leaching, and chemically it means either sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. Merriam-Webster says it can be either; so does Collins. It is clearly used in American English, as Sheri says, to mean sodium hydroxide, which is commonly called caustic soda in British English, though I have to say that "caustic soda" is in Merriam-Webster and is not marked as British.

Oxford says that lye is "a strongly alkaline solution, especially of potassium hydroxide". Potassium hydroxide (or potash, though this term can also mean potassium carbonate) is used in soap making; I gather it produces a more liquid soap. I don't think it should be used here, because acide de soude surely can't be potash (potasse in French).
Nina Iordache (asker) Jul 26, 2015:
@ Tony Hi, Tony! I think this is an old custom here, too. An old one of course. Maybe still in use in remote places. So potash it is. I'm reading it can be used but carefully since it is, well... caustic, too:)
Sheri P Jul 26, 2015:
@DLyons Sodium hydroxide (NaOH), also known as lye and caustic soda...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide

For people (like me) who are endlessly fascinated/amused by differences in different varieties of EN :-)
Tony M Jul 26, 2015:
Over here in France The big old traditional 'inglenook' fireplaces often have a sort of 'niche' where the white wood ash (potash) would be collected for use in making soap using e.g. goose grease; just as candles would be made from tallow (suet). "Waste not, want not!" as the saying goes.
DLyons Jul 26, 2015:
Lye is a different substance - at least on this side of the Atlantic.
Nina Iordache (asker) Jul 26, 2015:
Well, you are all right! Natural soap cannot be really natural, although authentic Aleppo soap... is "more" natural: just check this interesting link about Aleppo soap and the history of soap and washing in general, here: http://www.historische-aleppo-seife.de/engl_story.html
Sheri P Jul 26, 2015:
It's more common to call this plain old "lye" in the US. I've personally never heard the term "caustic soda." Just FYI.
Philippa Smith Jul 26, 2015:
Well done to the more expert chemists. It still seems odd the FR uses "acide de soude" but hey, nothing new there. And thanks to the googling, I'm thinking soap-making might be fun!
Charles Davis Jul 26, 2015:
My mother-in-law makes soap from leftover cooking oil (has done for years) and she uses caustic soda. It's normal practice. Her soap is excellent, by the way; better than any commercial stain remover we've ever found. I co-translated a book about natural soapmaking fairly recently (Sarah Harper, The Natural and Handmade Soap Book). Here is the introductory paragraph to the "Ingredients" section:

"The basic components of handmade soap are the oils, sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) and a liquid. Using these items, you can make a very simple bar of soap. However there are a plethora of essential oils, fragrances, colours, exfoliants and botanicals available that you can add to enhance and personalize your soap"
kashew Jul 26, 2015:
Soapmaking http://www.aroma-zone.com/info/fiche-savoir-faire/la-saponif...
DLyons Jul 26, 2015:
It's arguable how "natural" this is, but home industries traditionally used kelp to produce sodium carbonate and mixed this with home-produced slaked lime to give caustic soda.
kashew Jul 26, 2015:
Stumbled on this! http://www.historiography-project.com/…renzsoap.php
The most widely used method for the production of soap involves a ... This is not to be confused with soda ash (sodium carbonate) or ***acid soda*** (baking soda, i.e. ...

Proposed translations

+6
28 mins
Selected

caustic soda / sodium hydroxide

NaOH + oil is a standard recipe for soap.
Note from asker:
Thank you very much, DLyons! (to my disappointment, it's impossible to make soap otherwise:) )
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : True. I was going to post caustic soda but took a bit too long to assemble some evidence. It is odd to call a strong base an acid, but there we are.
5 mins
Thanks Charles. I imagine it's the fact that it burns the skin like an acid would.// As you say in your note :-)
agree Philippa Smith : bit more research, and I can see it is indeed - not bicarb (seems to be a minor/possible ingredient)
17 mins
Thanks Philippa.
agree Tony M : I can confirm that over here in France, caustic soda is often inaccurately referred to as 'acid' in several fields
1 hr
Thanks Tony.
agree Sheri P
1 hr
Thanks Sheri.
agree B D Finch
1 hr
Thanks Barbara.
agree Daryo
1 day 4 hrs
Thanks Daryo.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, DLyons!"

Reference comments

12 mins
Reference:

Not my field, but...

http://www.bicarbonatedesoude.fr/bicarbonate-de-sodium-ou-bi...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 minutes (2015-07-26 15:29:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://fr.wikipedia.org/…iki/Bicarbonate_de_sodium
Il est nommé de façon commune très souvent bicarbonate de sodium, mais aussi carbonate monosodique ou ***carbonate acide de sodium***, cette dernière ...
Note from asker:
Thank you Kashew and Philippa. I'm out at sea, so please post the answer. I was astonished not to find it exactly anywhere...
Sorrry, more context: Et au bout de 4-6 semaines, le PH redescend, le savon n'est plus caustique et il devient utilisable et vendable.
I am wondering if (with all the almost 100% natural ingredients) we have caustic soda there...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Philippa Smith : sounds likely given the context (a usual natural soap ingredient), you should post bicarb as an answer / Me too - along with maths, biology, geography...lucky there are languages!
5 mins
I pass - having failed chemistry hopelessly at school.
neutral B D Finch : Bicarb + vinegar is very useful for cleaning sink wastes, but I don't think you can make soap from it.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
32 mins
Reference:

caustic soda

By the time I had my answer ready DLyons had already posted his, but here it is, with some evidence to back it up:

If this is right then of course "acide" is a misnomer, because caustic soda is a strong base, the very opposite of an acid, but I think it's a popular non-scientific meaning of "acide" meaning simply something that burns.

Two points lead me to this conclusion. First, here's a page on how to make olives from the tree edible:

"Comment tranformer les olives de mon arbre pour les rendres comestibles ?
Il faut les faire tremper dans de l'acide de soude pendant un nuit, un litre de soude pour 10 litres d'eau, rincez trois fois de suite à limite de 12 heures minimum d'espace entre chaque rinçage, ensuite vous mettez les herbes que vous voulez dedans !!"
http://www.explic.com/10375-olives.htm

Traditionally, olives are soaked in caustic soda.

Second, here is a news report on an accident involving a tanker:

"Un camion transportant de l'acide de soude renversé sur la rocade
Ce jeudi 17 juin, vers 6 h 50, un camion transportant de la soude caustique s'est renversé sur la rocade de Rennes, à hauteur de la porte de Normandie, sur la commune de Thorigné-Fouillard."
http://www.rennes.lemensuel.com/actualite/article/2010/06/17...

NOT bicarbonate: no reason why that should be called "acide" and no connection with soap-making that I know of.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 44 mins (2015-07-26 15:58:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think caustic soda is accepted in "natural" soapmaking. It's pretty well indispensable, really. See the quotation I've just posted in the discussion area.
Note from asker:
Thank you, I'm thinking along the same lines. It's only that I could not find the term explained AND the maker says almost 100% of the products are natural (vegetal)!
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Philippa Smith
13 mins
Thanks!
agree Sheri P
4 hrs
Thanks, Sheri :)
Something went wrong...
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