| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Getting back results of test Thread poster: Arnaud HERVE
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| You are making assumptions here | Jan 14, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
I find it a bit sad that I'm not allowed to see my mistakes though.
You are assuming you made some. Maybe you screwed up totally, but maybe the translation was brilliant. Who knows? Back when I was starting out as a translator, I worked with a number of agencies who would send me the feedback from reviewers for comment, and what I saw failed to inspire a lot of respect in these processes. There were usually more errors introduced than there were improvements made.
If you are really concerned about the quality of what you did here, you might ask a colleague to do a short review of your effort, perhaps two colleagues - one that is a native speaker of the source language and one that is a native speaker of the target language.
But consider this a two-way test. It is also revealing to you the ways in which the company communicates with and treats translators. If you are unhappy with the way you are treated now, this might not improve much in the future.
My partner used to work for a German translation agency that used to do a lot of translation "tests". She was responsible for reviewing the results of many of these. However, all of the efforts were paid and detailed feedback was given on all tests.
@Taija: Yes, the "failed" ones or ones with no feedback. To that I would add the "passed" ones where no work results within a reasonable period of time or where one is told after passing that one's rates are "too high". Actually, any unpaid text is fair game when I think about it. If they want it kept under wraps, let them pay.
| | | | Arnaud HERVE 
France
Local time: 18:59
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Taija Salo wrote:
But... unpaid little tests are not a matter of life and death.
No, it's not a matter of life and death. It's just a matter of sharing experiences here.
It's just kind of silly the same day, one client finds you so good he asks you to review the work of the other translators for the job, and another client finds you so unsuitable that you don't even deserve to see the comments by the other reviewer.
Taija Salo wrote:
I keep in mind what a someone I know said in a job interview which didn't go so well: "If you don't take me, thank you for guiding me on to better jobs elsewhere."
Yes, horizons are wide and the sea is close.
| | | | | Specialization | Jan 14, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
It's just kind of silly the same day, one client finds you so good he asks you to review the work of the other translators for the job, and another client finds you so unsuitable that you don't even deserve to see the comments by the other reviewer.
It's one of the peculiarities of translation.
I'll publicly admit that my EN-PT medical text translations (if I did them) would be below contempt by a BR med school sophomore with high school English, plus maybe a couple of weeks spent in Florida. On the other extreme, some human resources management texts I translated PT-EN (deemed non-native for me) received emphatic praise from actual native speakers.
I think every professional translator has three major subject area clusters:
- subjects they translate without dictionaries, and unaware that their ISP has been down for hours;
- subjects they translate very carefully, querying all available reference sources whenever needed;
- subjects they don't know squat about in both languages, and shouldn't attempt to translate (though many do).
So what's the use of a general test comprising an array of such specialties? Is it sane to test a translator in umpteen specialties to pass or flunk him/her in each one? ... especially when we know that such an agency will come up with a yes/no answer for all them together regarding one specific individual.
[Edited at 2009-01-14 12:41 GMT]
| | | | Kate Chaffer
Italy
Local time: 18:59
Member (2009)
Italian to English
| No test to send back! | Jan 14, 2009 |
I think that the answer here is quite simple. There is no corrected version of your test translation to send back to you. If the agency tests 20-30 people a day, whoever looks over the tests will have seen that text so many times that he/she will just say whether a potential translator has passed or not, without bothering to go over specific errors.
I worked in-house for an agency where translators were chosen like that. Not particularly professional but that's how it was.
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tomu6526
Local time: 01:59
English to Chinese
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| should send back the result with a copy edit 公平的 | Jan 19, 2009 |
I think the company should send back the result with a copy edit to the tranlator.if not.....,I think it is not fair （不公平 in chinese）for the translator.
价格最合理的建工翻译公司
Architecture and civil engineering translation co，ltd
Translation company with the best price and quality ... See more I think the company should send back the result with a copy edit to the tranlator.if not.....,I think it is not fair （不公平 in chinese）for the translator.
价格最合理的建工翻译公司
Architecture and civil engineering translation co，ltd
Translation company with the best price and quality
http://www.jgfanyi.com.cn/
http://www.jgfanyi.com.cn/page/english/index.php
qq 329365731
msn:tomu6526@sina.com
phone:15814019060
tranlation forum：http://jgfy.5d6d.com/ ▲ Collapse
| | | | | tests and samples | Jan 19, 2009 |
how about looking at it in a different way, not as a test but as a sample? like the free samples they give you in malls. so instead of expecting each time a detailed reply just expect those who liked the tiny tiny sample to come back for more.
this idea is not mine, i had been looking at some freelancers websites while pondering on the thought of having my own page and i was really intrigued by the offer they where making. i still call them tests but the idea of offering 200 word samples s... See more how about looking at it in a different way, not as a test but as a sample? like the free samples they give you in malls. so instead of expecting each time a detailed reply just expect those who liked the tiny tiny sample to come back for more.
this idea is not mine, i had been looking at some freelancers websites while pondering on the thought of having my own page and i was really intrigued by the offer they where making. i still call them tests but the idea of offering 200 word samples seem quite interesting. test somehow remind me of school while samples sound more like we mean business.
just a thought. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 19:59
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
| Obvious difference | Jan 19, 2009 |
how about looking at it in a different way, not as a test but as a sample?
It's a sample if you have texts ready and choose the one you send them - if you get a free sample at the mall, you don't just point at something and get anything you want (or maybe you do, I never have). The problem here is that many of us see tests as unpaid work. But yes, if you take it as a sample of your work, it is probably not as annoying.
[Edited at 2009-01-19 18:57 GMT]
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 18:59
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Most of my translations are under an NDA of some sorts.
Even if it's not I implicitely guarantee the non communication of my works to third parties. Even if it's a text meant to be published worldwide, I still don't publish it myself. The end client is the master of publication.
Maybe I could ask if it's ok to publish samples of jobs from years' ago. For example for obsolete equipment.
Publishing samples of my work is not that easy. I'm a bit like the very... See more Most of my translations are under an NDA of some sorts.
Even if it's not I implicitely guarantee the non communication of my works to third parties. Even if it's a text meant to be published worldwide, I still don't publish it myself. The end client is the master of publication.
Maybe I could ask if it's ok to publish samples of jobs from years' ago. For example for obsolete equipment.
Publishing samples of my work is not that easy. I'm a bit like the very private very trusted secretary of my client. Almost a secret agent, with a State secret in his wallet.
I feel much more easy giving the names of my usual agencies, so the potential client can phone them and ask if I'm ok for the job. ▲ Collapse
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 11:59
Greek to English
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| Just an opinion | Jan 20, 2009 |
"...through each translator/editor/QC with their exams"
So you' re actually took an exam? Wow! Which school? Who was the professor?
Kidding of course. The industry is unregulated and it's the only industry in the World that accepts undocumented reviews.
Therefore, don't take it seriously... it's not such a formal commercial/scientific field so to speak. The PM did not send you y... See more "...through each translator/editor/QC with their exams"
So you' re actually took an exam? Wow! Which school? Who was the professor?
Kidding of course. The industry is unregulated and it's the only industry in the World that accepts undocumented reviews.
Therefore, don't take it seriously... it's not such a formal commercial/scientific field so to speak. The PM did not send you your test back because it's undocumented and she knows it would probably raise objections from you. She's not getting paid to handle objections, and since everything would be completely unsupported, nobody would know who's right and who's wrong.
Almost all reviews in this industry are unsupported, therefore they' re just unsupported opinions.
Don't send tests unless they've told you that they'll send them back to you.
You know that the Reviewer is another translator of the agency who doesn't want competition in the same agency. It's a typical Conflict of Interest case. The QA and QM managers seem to overlook that. Typical BS.
To eliminate your stress caused by tests: Don't do them.
(if something causes you stress, such as fast driving or doing tests for agencies, you have to stop doing it, and you won't have anymore stress...)
[Edited at 2009-01-20 01:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 19:59
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
| testing, testing... | Jan 20, 2009 |
You know that the Reviewer is another translator of the agency who doesn't want competition in the same agency. It's a typical Conflict of Interest case.
This is true in many cases, though probably not always. For example, I had a test rejected, then a month later suddenly approved, and I never even asked about it (waste of time from my point of view to start chasing these tests). What changed? Their need of my language pair? So the test result is relative to the need of translators? Or depends on who is reviewing it? By chance?
As fas as NDAs go, I wouldn't start publishing actual work I have done even if it wasn't subject to one. However, surely you can take a text without copyright issues and just translate it to make a sample. It's still your translation even if you chose it and no one paid for it - it will show your quality if that is what someone is interested in. And you can take a more difficult text of better quality than many of the test translation texts. If someone has doubts that you translated it yourself instead of taking someone else's translation, well, how do they know you didn't have a friend do the test translation for you, or get the text from someone who passed the test?
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 01:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Free Tests from Scambag Agencies | Feb 2, 2009 |
I once did a test for a Macau translation agency, which I doubt is client material.
It was a COVENANT NOT TO SUE which is an attachment to a Confidential Release of All Claims. I think it should be part of a big project. There is one sentence, which actually forms the whole first paragraph of the document, that is quite difficult. I suspect the agency just give me the hard nut that he himself can not crack. Actually I suspect there is only him in that agency. He is not only the ... See more I once did a test for a Macau translation agency, which I doubt is client material.
It was a COVENANT NOT TO SUE which is an attachment to a Confidential Release of All Claims. I think it should be part of a big project. There is one sentence, which actually forms the whole first paragraph of the document, that is quite difficult. I suspect the agency just give me the hard nut that he himself can not crack. Actually I suspect there is only him in that agency. He is not only the founder, but also project manager and translator.
After I sent him the test translation, he didn't reply to me until a week later, I wrote to him asking for feedback. He said "Generally, your translation can pass", and strangely, he asked me "Do you do translation in other domains?". It was really disgusting. If I do translation in other domains, will he send me tests in each of the domains I list?
We really need to be careful of these scambags. ▲ Collapse
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 01:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Honest Agencies | Feb 2, 2009 |
I did an evaluation of other translator's tests for a Singapore agency last week. They offfered me USD20 to comment on and evaluate 3 translators' tests.
I once did the same test before when I applied to this agency about 2 months ago. Although they didn't send me back the review comments, at least now I know they do not cheat.
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| A different policy | Feb 2, 2009 |
Laura Liu wrote:
I did an evaluation of other translator's tests for a Singapore agency last week. They offfered me USD20 to comment on and evaluate 3 translators' tests.
You may think I'm crazy, this actually developed by accident, but I don't charge for evaluating other translators' tests. Of course I cannot disclose anything about the organizations I have done it for, but as long as the request is reasonable, I do it for absolutely no money. In all cases so far there was another potential or actual job for me involved, and some paid off very nicely.
The most amazing was one end-client who sent me half a dozen 5-line samples from different translators. I think I told them something like to hire #3, if possible with proofreading by #5. Then they asked me if either of these would be able to do a final job single-handedly. I can't remember which of them I chose, but I told them to specifically ask that translator to be extra careful with a couple of things. A while later I had a chance to see the final outcome, and I'd rate that as 95% OK.
I think that if I were paid for doing assessing tests, they'd have to provide me with standards for passing or flunking (which most clients don't have), and I'd have to justify my compliance to these. By doing it for free, I simply offer my honest judgment of each translator's relative likelihood of rendering satisfactory work.
Nevertheless, as now and then a translator attempts to hire me to take an outsourcer's test for them, I think the whole idea of testing it is pointless. Only actual work, time over time, will prove if a translator is good or not.
| | | | dd dd
Local time: 01:59
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Testing is pointless? | Feb 3, 2009 |
Being hired by another translator to do the test? Maybe I had this experience once also, but I am not very sure.
What I am sure is that I was once hired by the Shanghai office of a certain overseas agency to proofread the translation of a test document which is to be submitted to a potential client for the bidding of a large project.
It was a short document, 468 words. I was extremely meticulous and I read it again and again. I spent nearly 4 hours on it, but was pai... See more Being hired by another translator to do the test? Maybe I had this experience once also, but I am not very sure.
What I am sure is that I was once hired by the Shanghai office of a certain overseas agency to proofread the translation of a test document which is to be submitted to a potential client for the bidding of a large project.
It was a short document, 468 words. I was extremely meticulous and I read it again and again. I spent nearly 4 hours on it, but was paid only 0.5 hour of my hourly rate, which is USD10.
The next day, I called their PM asking for feedback. He said very ightly that it was ok, not bad. I interpreted it as not very good. I then asked him to pass me to their in-house translator because I'd like to talk with her about some of the corrections I made on her translation which were later changed back. I said I heard from the PM that the client is not very satisfied with our work. She said as far as she knew, the client had given the translation the highest rating!!?? I am a little bit shocked and puzzled, and of course the PM called me later finding excuses and explaining why he said so.
I believe this agency must have got that project, but they never asked me to participate in that project later. I wonder why? Could it be that they want translators that are even cheaper? Or because they are fed up with my calling them on specific translation issues?
So, the fact is, the ones that do the test are not necessarily the ones that will do the actual work. That's true for both the agencies and the end clients.
[Edited at 2009-02-03 10:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 18:59
French to German
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| No rights, yes... | Feb 5, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
You hear lots of different approaches - including just being ignored. At least they wrote back. I'm not really sure we have any "rights" when it comes to tests....
except the one to decline the test in the first place - 90% of the time in my case.
Laurent K.
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