Pages in topic: < [1 2] | The cons and pros of translation. Thread poster: Williamson
| RobinB United States Local time: 13:32 German to English Comparative incomes for medical professionals | Oct 6, 2003 |
The following information published today in one of Germany's quality daily newspapers may be of interest: a chart showing average incomes for various types of physician in Germany in 2001. Note firstly that the figures (in euros) are *averages*, and secondly that the amounts represent income from medical practice before taxes ("Überschuss aus freiberuflicher Tätigkeit") and personal allowances. The amounts in parentheses are for eastern Germany, and I've just given a selection below.
... See more The following information published today in one of Germany's quality daily newspapers may be of interest: a chart showing average incomes for various types of physician in Germany in 2001. Note firstly that the figures (in euros) are *averages*, and secondly that the amounts represent income from medical practice before taxes ("Überschuss aus freiberuflicher Tätigkeit") and personal allowances. The amounts in parentheses are for eastern Germany, and I've just given a selection below.
130,776 (106,825) - internal specialists
115,490 (69,729) - gynaecologists
109,265 (71,748) - paediatricians
95,102 (71,156) - surgeons
85,485 (76,235) - radiologists
80,245 (76,235) - dermatologists
Pharmacists earned on average 131,665 euros (eastern Germany) and 112,880 euros (western Germany), while dentists earned an average of 99,670 euros (western Germany) and 83,170 (eastern Germany). The average for "Kassenärzte" (panel doctors under contract to the statutory health insurance funds) was 97,852 euros (west) and 78,682 euros (east).
We could probably obtain (= buy) similar official statistics for translators and interpreters in Germany. Question: do these figures for the medical profession make you any happier, or even more depressed? ▲ Collapse | | | Williamson United Kingdom Local time: 19:32 Flemish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER Blinded by translation. | Oct 6, 2003 |
If you are not "blinded by translation" then you realize that, with the exception of Canada, the profession is not highly recognized by the general public.
I know what I would like to do most, but that is a 60.000 euro investment and rates are not important?
I am not trying to recruit freelance translators away from being freelancer, just to look at the pros and cons of what you are doing instead of being blinded by translation.
What is meant with "no basis for a career" is fo... See more If you are not "blinded by translation" then you realize that, with the exception of Canada, the profession is not highly recognized by the general public.
I know what I would like to do most, but that is a 60.000 euro investment and rates are not important?
I am not trying to recruit freelance translators away from being freelancer, just to look at the pros and cons of what you are doing instead of being blinded by translation.
What is meant with "no basis for a career" is for example: You start in a company as a financial specialist for example and that the career path leads to financial manager, financial director etc. (MBA-preferred, not a translator's degree).
When a company downsizes, it is the bottom layer, which is hurt most.
Based upon their experience, middle and higher management can easily move to another company.
With mistakes are meant omissions and typos or discussions about a particular term as an excuse for rate reduction, not syntax errors. Of course, everybody is perfect and nobody makes these kinds of mistakes.
The mother-tongue idiosyncrasy is only valid when you work alone and I don't. Otherwise, you can always ask a native speaker to revise your text.
If you have to translate into your mother-tongue only, then why do T&I-schools oblige their students to translate both ways?
What is the sense of attending one and graduating as a translator if the translation community objects to you earning a living with what you have been trained for: to translate into both directions of your chosen language-combination.
I would be curious to see some statistics about the income of the translator.
Do they match the figures mentioned in the example of the doctors taking into account the number of hours the doctors work and the number of hours the translator works and I do not mean translation management?
[Edited at 2003-10-06 11:20] ▲ Collapse | | | lien Netherlands Local time: 20:32 English to French + ... There are two things here | Oct 6, 2003 |
We translate because we love it and it is a lot a fun, as Jane remarked.
What I understand from your messages, you are looking for a way of making a lot of money compared to others.
You are in the wrong lane, here. You should be dealing in properties, investments, something where the only goal of the game is to make lots of money.
But don't be a translator,the game is not the same, though you can also earn a confortable living doing it.
I do... See more We translate because we love it and it is a lot a fun, as Jane remarked.
What I understand from your messages, you are looking for a way of making a lot of money compared to others.
You are in the wrong lane, here. You should be dealing in properties, investments, something where the only goal of the game is to make lots of money.
But don't be a translator,the game is not the same, though you can also earn a confortable living doing it.
I do it for the intellectual challenge, money is something that comes along. ▲ Collapse | | | I couldn't have expressed it better | Oct 6, 2003 |
lien wrote:
We translate because we love it and it is a lot a fun, as Jane remarked.
What I understand from your messages, you are looking for a way of making a lot of money compared to others.
You are in the wrong lane, here. You should be dealing in properties, investments, something where the only goal of the game is to make lots of money.
But don't be a translator,the game is not the same, though you can also earn a confortable living doing it.
I do it for the intellectual challenge, money is something that comes along.
Williamson, if the most important goal and motivation as a translator is money, I suggest you to follow Lien's advice
Regards,
Marianela | |
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Steffen Pollex (X) Local time: 20:32 English to German + ... Couldn't agree more | Oct 6, 2003 |
Lydia Molea-Lanier wrote:
I really don't understand your problem: if you don't like translating, don't do it.
What is the point of your posting?
| | | RobinB United States Local time: 13:32 German to English Blinded vs. blinkered | Oct 6, 2003 |
I'm not really sure what you mean about "blinded by translation". I think that for most translators, the successful ones at least, the excitement of being a freelance economic agent rubs off quite soon. It is, or I hope should be, replaced by job satisfaction, financial security and the feeling that despite the frequent lack of feedback from customers, you really are making a difference.
Aren't you being rather blinkered, though, in what you say? It seems to me that you've shifted f... See more I'm not really sure what you mean about "blinded by translation". I think that for most translators, the successful ones at least, the excitement of being a freelance economic agent rubs off quite soon. It is, or I hope should be, replaced by job satisfaction, financial security and the feeling that despite the frequent lack of feedback from customers, you really are making a difference.
Aren't you being rather blinkered, though, in what you say? It seems to me that you've shifted from a perhaps unnecessarily negative approach to one where a certain bitterness seems to be coming through.
If you know what you would like to do most, and you need a EUR60k investment, surely you should be able to convince a lender if you yourself are convincing about the project.
I think you're really wrong about the career thing. A lot of people start *and finish* their lives as financial specialists. At most, they make it to middle management. And who gets downsized first in the financial services industry? Right, the middle managers. Frankfurt is now full of former bankers, analysts, financial communications people, and even *lawyers* (!!) who are now trying to translate to make a living because they've got no hope in hell of ever returning to their original professions, anywhere. Some career path!
But if that's the sort of "career" you want, I really do suggest that you stop translating, don a pinstripe suit and head off down to the job centre. And wait for the howls of laughter from the staff.
I don't know how the mother-tongue issue crept into this. The fact is that today, many native speakers of English have such a poor command of the language that they're generally outshone by the top non-native speakers. I'll take a non-native with excellent subject area knowledge and strong English any day over a native English speaker with lousy subject area knowledge and the sort of English language skills that seem to get you a university degree today.
T&I schools (not all!) oblige their students to translate both ways because that's their institutionalised system, that's why. It's also extremely good practice for students.
Statistics on translator income are hard to come by, and would probably be skewed by the fact that at least 50% of translators are part-timers (which probably wouldn't be reflected in the statistics).
I'd say that most doctors here in Germany probably work the same "coalface" hours as translators, and both probably work the same "management" hours.
Because of that, I think that although the average would probably be lower, the bandwidth would probably be much, much greater around that average. So although you might find a statistical average of, say, EUR40k a year, you'd then find a minimum of e.g. EUR2k and a maximum of EUR200k or more. Which would make the average pretty meaningless, wouldn't it?
I do have the feeling, though, that you've more or less given up on translation. Time to move on, I guess. Best of luck! ▲ Collapse | | | kbamert Local time: 20:32 French to German + ... some of your profit goes to your revisor, if you don't need one, all of the profit stays with you | Oct 6, 2003 |
With mistakes are meant omissions and typos or discussions about a particular term as an excuse for rate reduction, not syntax errors.
.....
The mother-tongue idiosyncrasy is only valid when you work alone and I don't. Otherwise, you can always ask a native speaker to revise your text.
If you have to translate into your mother-tongue only, then why do T&I-schools oblige their students to translate both ways?
What is the sense of attending one and graduating as a translator if the translation community objects to you earning a living with what you have been trained for: to translate into both directions of your chosen language-combination.
If you had a good (native tongue) revisor knowing the speciality and appropriate terminology (including localisation), the mistake you mention above shouldn't occur. But if he is really good he might have to retranslate again what you deliver to him if you don't respect the rule to translate only to your mother tongue or strongest language...
Good translator schools (do indeeed oblige their students to do translations into the source language (not their mother tongue), but only for excercise! They even warn their students, not to translate into a language that is not their mother tongue, for obvious reasons... (efficiency and quality). Language consists as well of something called style and that it has to sound typical, inherent to the language, not artificial... There are not only typos and syntactic errors and terminology (localisation) problems... | | | Dyran Altenburg (X) United States Local time: 14:32 English to Spanish + ... Just for the record | Oct 6, 2003 |
I do it for the money, definitely.
I treat my profession as a business. Nothing more, nothing less.
Basically because, of the several things I can do well (*ahem*), this one is by far the most profitable and the one that requires the least effort.
Granted, it's doubtful I'll become a millionaire doing translations, but I earn very good money (think middle management level in a big corporation).
So, would I still translate if I didn't need the i... See more I do it for the money, definitely.
I treat my profession as a business. Nothing more, nothing less.
Basically because, of the several things I can do well (*ahem*), this one is by far the most profitable and the one that requires the least effort.
Granted, it's doubtful I'll become a millionaire doing translations, but I earn very good money (think middle management level in a big corporation).
So, would I still translate if I didn't need the income? I seriously doubt it. I like to be part of the communication process, but I'd much rather spend my time doing something else for fun.
[Edited at 2003-10-08 14:49] ▲ Collapse | |
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sandhya Local time: 01:02 German to English + ... Here are some pros of translation | Oct 7, 2003 |
Hi Williamson,
I am a full-time translator, always have been ever since I finished my education. In fact, this was a "career" I chose deliberately! You asked for some pros (of the activity itself):
1) Being a freelancer (regardless of the field) gives you the opportunity to indulge in other interests.
2) I believe, to be a translator one has to first like "playing with words", languages. I love both, therefore, my job is a sheer pleasure not a chore!
3) Like... See more Hi Williamson,
I am a full-time translator, always have been ever since I finished my education. In fact, this was a "career" I chose deliberately! You asked for some pros (of the activity itself):
1) Being a freelancer (regardless of the field) gives you the opportunity to indulge in other interests.
2) I believe, to be a translator one has to first like "playing with words", languages. I love both, therefore, my job is a sheer pleasure not a chore!
3) Like any self-employed person, it takes time to establish oneself. But once that is achieved, translation allows me to make enough money... in fact, on an average more than the other so-called "respected" professions!
4) Sometimes one does meet bad clients that do not pay, but that is true of all businesses and permanent jobs. In such cases, one must be wise and plan financially for the future!
5)Translation helps me "meet" people from across the globe. My clientele stretches from Europe to USA, to UK to New Zealand to Australia... covers practically all the continents. This opportunity is not available in other professions... at least I think not!
6) Translation helps me accumulate knowledge in varied fields!
Well, these are just a few.
As for those that translate just "until they find a better job" - they should not be doing it at all! It is these very "interim translators" that find translation an uninteresting profession! I prefer to call such translators "unprofessional" - to put it mildly and politely!
Finally, if one practises a particular profession merely as a temporary measure, then one must NOT expect the moon!
cheers![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
all the best
sandhya
Williamson wrote:
Translation is business and some clients like those on the money-markets can afford to pay more.
Organizational principles are applied in any company and are based upon ideas of "management gurus" taught at biz.schools or during a management training at a company, not at schools for translators.
I had agency customers and direct customers.
Perhaps it was bad luck, but with a few rare exceptions, agencies were always looking for mistakes (who is perfect?) to ask for a price-reduction.
Some direct customers did not understand translation and asked for a low price.
--
This "haggling" does not hold sway with interpreting: Interpreting is a much smaller market-niche.
The usual more or less fixed rate is €350/day for interpreting in Anglosaxon countries to €400-500 euro per day in Europe and even €600/day if you are a member of AIIC. Nobody is complaining or is trying to reduce the price if you had a slip of the tongue.
Moreover, you do not become an interpreter overnight. Especially not when consecutive interpreting is required.
To end on a positive note: Could somebody sum up the Pros of the activity of translation from the point of view of the activity itself and not from the management point of view of translation.
[Edited at 2003-10-05 10:58]
[Edited at 2003-10-05 10:58] ▲ Collapse | | | Williamson United Kingdom Local time: 19:32 Flemish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER Temporary since 1986.... | Oct 22, 2003 |
[quote]Sandhya Murthy wrote:
Finally, if one practises a particular profession merely as a temporary measure, then one must NOT expect the moon!
cheers![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
all the best
sandhya[quote]
Temporary since 1986. 0.07 eurocents may be a lot in India, but that was what I got paid back in 1986.
If I evaluate the last three offers I got, they were at 0.07-0.08 eurocents/word, where sometimes a cent more or less made a difference between getting the offer or not and this for specialized subjects.
Quite a career wouldn't you think so?
A cent/word rate-rise in 17 years.
This penny-pinching evokes a nasty feeling. For specialized texts, I stick to my bottom-rate. I do not like to end up with a client-portfolio of cheapskates again.
[Edited at 2003-10-22 13:44] | | | sylver Local time: 03:32 English to French
Let's be straight. In everything, you got pros and cons. While I like very much my job, there are things I don't like. Anyway. back to the main issue:
You are freelance. That means your life is what you make it.
Rates are choosen by...YOU! Ding! Good answer!
After 17 years on the job, you should have realized that and you had time enough to make good customers.
Hell. I am in business since only 3 years and I already managed to increase my av... See more Let's be straight. In everything, you got pros and cons. While I like very much my job, there are things I don't like. Anyway. back to the main issue:
You are freelance. That means your life is what you make it.
Rates are choosen by...YOU! Ding! Good answer!
After 17 years on the job, you should have realized that and you had time enough to make good customers.
Hell. I am in business since only 3 years and I already managed to increase my average rates by over 50%, from a lousy €0.06 to a reasonable €0.10. That said, I also increased my quality, experience and knowledge, well above that extra 50%, so customers are swarming in. Now, as I live in a country with very low cost of living, I can live pretty well with less then one week of work per month, leaving the rest open for exploration and the pleasures of life, and self-study, and whatever I feel like.Beside, my job being what it is I learn a broad range of new stuff every day, from the latest printer features to ...hell, I don't know. every job has a new something to learn.
Now, you tell me about another job like this one.
I am not telling you that when Mrs. Deadline lay her ghastly cold fingers on my neck, I ain't sweating pearls, mind you. That happens. And when I spend 5 hours in a row banging me head on the wall trying to understand a word in my technical specs, only to find out it's a slang for "clamp", used by a couple mecanics down at a plant in South Slobovenia, I cry.
When an $censured$ takes me for a ride and doesn't pay, it's a very good thing we are not in the same side of the world, because I go and kill the b$censured$!
I am not telling you either that I wouldn't appreciate a couple more zeros on the back of my invoices figures, too. And when I come back to more expensive places, I have to work a lot more.
Hikes! Freelance translator is not a perfect job, but it sure ain't bad.![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_wink.gif) ▲ Collapse | |
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Williamson United Kingdom Local time: 19:32 Flemish to English + ... TOPIC STARTER Order of preference | Jan 13, 2004 |
No, it ain't bad, but after having given it a thought I haveestablished my personal order of preference:
a. Interpreting: more or less fixed rates, no pennypinching, the stress of the moment and you seldom work during weekends.
b. ICT-training (I have an ECDL): pays a bit less, fixed hours and when the training is finished, the work is done and the invoice ready to be printed.
c. Translation management: the management aspect of it has a certain price in the biz.world.
d. ... See more No, it ain't bad, but after having given it a thought I haveestablished my personal order of preference:
a. Interpreting: more or less fixed rates, no pennypinching, the stress of the moment and you seldom work during weekends.
b. ICT-training (I have an ECDL): pays a bit less, fixed hours and when the training is finished, the work is done and the invoice ready to be printed.
c. Translation management: the management aspect of it has a certain price in the biz.world.
d. Translation itself, if possible during business-hours so that I get a life and am able to expand my software skills, study an extra language and read through biz.courses.
[Edited at 2004-01-13 11:48] ▲ Collapse | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » The cons and pros of translation. Trados Business Manager Lite |
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