| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | We can't accept your new rate, because... Thread poster: Anna Sarah Krämer
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| My rates could be higher | Jan 13, 2016 |
Adrian MM. wrote:
Just think about doing unto others as you would have done unto yourselves.
I don't see why I would hurt someone's religious and/or calendary feelings by raising my rates in January. I might hurt some people's financial feelings, though.
My rates are in the lower end of the average - and although I am satisfied with them, I see it as a responsibility to fellow translators to try and move a little further away from bottom feeders' territory. Which means that I am constantly on the lookout for better paying clients.
This said, I didn't raise all my rates for all my clients. I raised the rate for one service I offer for one of my clients. January is a good time for this because many clients (from Western countries) expect it to be like this. They might actually be shocked if I tried this in June.
[Edited at 2016-01-13 08:53 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Basic, real-world economics | Jan 13, 2016 |
Adrian MM. wrote:
It riles me when my own co-workers and colleagues (editors and audio-typists) spring this traditional hike on me, in one case a 75% leap.
Just think about doing unto others as you would have done unto yourselves.
I cannot agree. This is nothing more than price discovery, a basic and natural part of every market since the dawn of trade itself.
If I were managing or outsourcing projects, I would be monitoring the market to get a feel for what I should be paying a good translator in the relevant pair.
If I felt that the freelancer (Ms. ABC) was being unreasonable I would look for another freelancer. If I could not find any decent candidates at the rate I had been paying Ms. ABC I would assume that I had been paying her at under market rates. I would have to accept Ms. ABC's new rate, or accept less work in her pair and her specialization, or raise my prices to clients.
On the other hand, if I were able to find several good candidates at Ms. ABC's previous rate, I would assume that Ms. ABC is asking for more than the going market rate. I would negotiate with her and if she stood firm I would start working with the new candidates and see how it went.
Conversely, if I looked and found several good candidates charging less than Ms. ABC I might suggest to her that her rate is, if anything, rather high and see how she responded. If I valued her services - good quality, keeps to deadlines, easy to work with etc. - I might keep working with her at her old rate, but I might ask her to cut her rate.
What it comes down to is that well-informed buyers should be paying close to market rates, though of course translation is a highly segmented market. Provided that there is decent visibility on the going rate, we can make choices about what prices we are willing to pay for services.
If the service providers decide to price themselves out of the market or price their services at below the market rate that's their business. Buyers don't have to deal with them. If there's limited supply of a certain service and abundant demand, then naturally prices will go up.
Incidentally, the "75% leap" you mention tells us little without discussion of the absolute level. In one recent thread a freelancer was accepting an exploitatively low rate from an agency. That freelancer would have been perfectly justified in raising her prices by 75%.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | Years of translation experience | Jan 13, 2016 |
Adrian and Tom: Combined, you have 62 years of translation experience. Anna Sarah and I each have seven years.
We are still working our way through the flip side of the process described by Dan, and our rate increases have absolutely no relationship to the rate of inflation, average rates, etc. We are still exploring the market to find our optimal client base: the one that sustainably offers the best conditions (and high rates are among my top priorities).
I am against ... See more Adrian and Tom: Combined, you have 62 years of translation experience. Anna Sarah and I each have seven years.
We are still working our way through the flip side of the process described by Dan, and our rate increases have absolutely no relationship to the rate of inflation, average rates, etc. We are still exploring the market to find our optimal client base: the one that sustainably offers the best conditions (and high rates are among my top priorities).
I am against sudden rate changes for existing clients, because they make life unnecessarily difficult for them in order to make a little extra cash: When repeat clients come back after a long time, I do the first project at the old rate and then inform them of the rate increase when I send them the invoice. When I raise rates with an existing client, then I notify them several months in advance so that they have time to look for someone else.
When I send an offer for a project, I also do my best to give the potential client enough time to gather and compare other offers.
I don't know it that counts as fairness or just not being a stupid jerk, but I feel no obligation to be affordable for everyone who needs a translation in my field, just as I see no obligation on their part to pay the rates I am able to secure from other clients. It's also not as though I'm the only freelance translator with an art history degree out there, I'm not taking advantage of some kind of monopoly, I'm just running a business. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Adrian and Tom: Combined, you have 62 years of translation experience.
Much more than that, I'll wager !
We are still working our way through the flip side of the process described by Dan, and our rate increases have absolutely no relationship to the rate of inflation, average rates, etc. We are still exploring the market to find our optimal client base
Well, you're right; a few years ago when I was beginning my professional life as a translator I didn't have a very good idea either of what the correct tariff should be so I just plucked a rate out of the air and went for it.
In the ensuing period, for about three or four years, I cautiously increased my rate until I had reached what I think is now the correct rate for my language pair, with a little extra because I modestly think I have a bit more expertise in my specific fields, as compared to other translators I see in my language pair struggling to translate the highly specialised terminology found in texts on architecture, construction, etc.
Nevertheless, I'm still unhappy with the maximum rate I can dare to charge in the Italian to English market, which is persistently lower than the average rate for translation in general in other European Union countries, such as Germany or France.
During the period in which I was gradually increasing my rate, I was fortunate that interest rates were increasing generally each year, so every January it was not too difficult to tell my clients that I was going to increase my rate by a small amount.
But these days, with interest rates so low, I would think that's not quite so easy. The only justification for increasing one's rate now would be when you have a consolidated relationship with a client that has established you as more skilful and more professional than your competitors.
[Edited at 2016-01-13 09:31 GMT]
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| In a nutshell | Jan 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
The only justification for increasing one's rate now would be when you have a consolidated relationship with a client that has established you as more skilful and more professional than your competitors.
And that, ladies and gents, is what truth looks like.
Dan
PS I'm in the same situation as Michael and Anna Sarah myself - still feeling my way towards the optimal client base for my portfolio of skills
| | | | | Survey on rates published by the German Translators' Association | Jan 13, 2016 |
By the way, the German Translators' Association BDÜ (Bundesverband der Dolmetscher und Übersetzer) just published the results of its survey on rates conducted in 2015, which reflect the rates asked for in 2014 by participating translators and interpreters living in Germany. The publication can be bought for 17,50 EUR at the address indicated be... See more By the way, the German Translators' Association BDÜ (Bundesverband der Dolmetscher und Übersetzer) just published the results of its survey on rates conducted in 2015, which reflect the rates asked for in 2014 by participating translators and interpreters living in Germany. The publication can be bought for 17,50 EUR at the address indicated below.
http://www.bdue-fachverlag.de/fachverlag/publikationen/detail_book/100
Didn't the ATA conduct a similar survey? I tried to find the results on their website, but to no avail. Does anybody know whether this information is made public somewhere?
[Edited at 2016-01-13 11:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Exactly the opposite & a few cases | Jan 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
The only justification for increasing one's rate now would be when you have a consolidated relationship with a client that has established you as more skilful and more professional than your competitors.
Setting rates is a delicate balancing act.
If a translator sets them too high, s/he'll make a bundle on each job, however won't have enough jobs to take up a significant portion of their scheduled working hours. If the rates are below what they "should" be, the translator will be under such a massive demand, that s/he won't have time to earn enough to make ends meet, or to improve/step out of this situation by with some smart marketing activity.
In ancient times, I translated a sales training video titled "Your price is right! Sell it!". The clue it gave me was that, as a one-man-show freelancer, not having an entire marketing department under my command, first I'd have to make sure my price was right.
I took the tools from the lessons I had in my early compensation management (CM) days, balancing:
internal equity - in CM paying the same salary for equivalent work; in freelancing translation, making ends sustainably meet; and
external competitiveness - in CM attracting and retaining desirable talent; in freelancing translation, attracting worthy clients.
... and set my rates, compatible with the value package I offer.
When a prospect offers me a different (usually lower) amount than my carefully calculated rate, I am aware that if I accepted it I would entail disrupting that balance.
IMHO the entire rates issue in the freelance translation realm stems from the translator assuming that "If a supposedly reputable player is offering me that much, that's what my work is worth, so my balance is wrong." Does that prospect have any evidence that the compensation they are offering is indeed what the expected deliverables are worth?
I've had one returning client who asked for a large job cost estimate, which I provided. They told me they had found someone who would do it for 25% less. I thanked them for the heads-up, so I wouldn't stay awake waiting for that job. They said, "No! We want YOU to do it for 25% less." I told them that fortunately they were familiar with my service, and my price too; that was what it would cost. The order (at my full rate) came within half an hour or so.
In order to keep that balance, I can't raise my rates just because "I wanna make mo' money'. There must be a financial reason backing my decision, viz. to preserve that balance.
Once a sudden but lasting shift in exchange rates once forced me to raise my international rates (USD) by 20%. Those clients that made me wonder if they were worth keeping every time they sent me a job vanished immediately. The good ones are still with me as of today. And I got a whole flock of new clients who wouldn't take me, because my previous rate in USD was probably quote too cheap to be good unquote.
A couple of years later, the exchange rate shifted back to what it was before. Did I lower my rates? Well, not exactly. I realized that my domestic (Brazil) interest rates were outrageously high, if compared internationally. As a reference, the MPR (monthly) in Brazil is now numerically similar to the APR (annual) in the USA. So I began giving discounts on faster payment, which were gladly received by most of my clients. Nowadays, 97% of my clients pay me COD, and the benefit is mutual.
About a month ago, a not-so-frequent, however definitely first-class client of mine, who always accepted my rates point-blank without questioning, contacted me. They had an urgent request, which I was unable to serve, as I was booked solid with another urgency. They said they'd get someone else. Two weeks later, they asked me if I could do a once-over on that person's translation on a request by the end-client, who was not as impressed as usual. As I had time, I did it, and fixed a flock of tidbits where it behooved. It was not too bad, however slightly below what I'd consider acceptable. They thanked me, however I did NOT send them an invoice, and don't intend to do it. It's such a good client, that I feel accountable for being available when they need me, since I am their first choice for my language pair. I charged it to my marketing budget, and their track record shows it's a good investment.
Another client, a local agency, uses me mostly for video work. Once they contacted me, I was overseas, so I couldn't do it. Obviously, they hired someone else. Upon my return, I asked them about how it went. Their reply was, "Don't you ask about it! Never again! We'll rather decline the request if you can't do it."
Under Tom's idea, I could raise my rates to these two clients on a whim, after I've conquered a commanding position with them. However I'm fully aware that, since they are translation agencies, if I raise my rates beyond that precious balance, they'll obviously raise theirs, and the consequence will be that THEY will start losing jobs to THEIR competition, which ultimately will lead me to have fewer jobs from them; a lose-lose outcome.
Summing it all up:
1. a translator's rate must keep that delicate balance;
2. a change in rates is fully justifiable whenever that balance is compromised;
3. transparency/disclosure in pricing strategy makes good clients accept changes without rebuttal.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Making too much money? | Jan 13, 2016 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
If a translator sets (their rates) too high, s/he'll make a bundle on each job, however won't have enough jobs to take up a significant portion of their scheduled working hours.
Horrors! Too much time to do more jobs, or to do other things! Oh no, I wouldn't want that! I'd rather work for lower rates and not have any time !
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| That's the balance! | Jan 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
If a translator sets (their rates) too high, s/he'll make a bundle on each job, however won't have enough jobs to take up a significant portion of their scheduled working hours.
Horrors! Too much time to do more jobs, or to do other things! Oh no, I wouldn't want that! I'd rather work for lower rates and not have any time !
Examples (random currency, $ is not USD - can be anything) of average income:
Rates too high: working 3 hours per day, making $ 7,000
Balance: working 8 hours per day, making $ 10,000
Rates too low: working 15 hours per day, making $ 7,500
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| No such thing | Jan 13, 2016 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Rates too high: working 3 hours per day, making $ 7,000
Wrong. Rates too high: no work at all !
| | | | | well, exactly... | Jan 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Rates too high: working 3 hours per day, making $ 7,000
Wrong. Rates too high: no work at all !
Should be:
High rate
Medium rate
Low rate
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Tom in London wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Rates too high: working 3 hours per day, making $ 7,000
Wrong. Rates too high: no work at all !
I have heard - from clients - of a few top-flight specialists in some very critical and highly specialized areas of human knowledge/endeavor who command translation rates 80% higher than mine (and there are entire time zones on this planet where my rates are considered too high to believe).
I know a couple of them, and they are also active players in these areas, so they are kept up-to-date with them, sort of from the horse's mouth. That's one more reason why they can't commit more of their time to translation. It's a different kind of balance, though still deliberate.
For over a decade I held a balance different from my present one. I was splitting my time between translation and HRD consulting. Two events shifted my balance: mushrooming cheaper competition in HRD consulting, and my successful exam and appointment as a sworn translator by the BR government. The latter brought me a significant additional demand at statutory rates.
Likewise, we see here on Proz, as well as in many other places, foreign language teachers starting to work part-time as translators. They are often hesitating before taking the plunge into full-time translation, which would imply kissing good-bye to their periodic paycheck in exchange for a potentially higher - albeit often unpredictable - income.
Every one must find their very own personal BALANCE.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Rates too high: working 3 hours per day, making $ 7,000
This would be my ideal situation, so I would call it "rates just right." Haha.
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Tom in London wrote:
Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:
Although I have to agree with Tom on the brevity, I like Łukaszs deliberations.
I didn't read them;
You mean you didn't actually read the 'long screeds of badly written stuff'? Looks like there's something I'm not getting.
no offence intended but I have a lot of translating to do and it's almost lunchtime !
You seem to have a lot of time to mention how you don't have time, for someone who has no time, Tom.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:11
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
You seem to have a lot of time to mention how you don't have time, for someone who has no time, Tom.
I certainly haven't got time for this. Over and out.
[Edited at 2016-01-13 19:22 GMT]
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