| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Help with understanding legalese/legal impacts (liability; agency's SLA) Thread poster: Nina Esser
|
|---|
Andy Watkinson 
Spain
Local time: 02:23
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Texte Style wrote:
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Never heard of anyone being sued. Have you?
No. I thought not.
A translator giving their real name on Proz would never want to admit to going to court over a mistake they made in their translation. Their reputation would be in tatters.
Every week someone (under their real name) posts to complain that they're having non-payment issues due to real or perceived errors in their work.
Don't see how this is any different.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 02:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| The radiation case | Mar 1, 2018 |
Texte Style wrote:
Nina Esser wrote:
@Texte Style, like Tania I'd really like to read up on the lethal translation error you mentioned.
I just googled and found nothing, but I'm pretty sure I read about it here...
My German is a little rusty, but could it be this one?
https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Drei-Tote-durch-Roentgen-article216653.html
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:23
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Something called an NDA | Mar 1, 2018 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Never heard of anyone being sued. Have you?
No. I thought not.
I would just point out here that corporates dislike the risk of a court battle, and will prefer an out-of-court settlement if they think there is a possibility that they may not win. Such settlements invariably include confidentiality clauses, otherwise the most important element of risk for the company - reputational - is not nullified and their motivation to settle is reduced dramatically.
So even if there were a dispute serious enough that both sides get lawyered up, and I agree that is probably rare, the likelihood of hearing either side talking about it after the fact would be extremely low. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. And it might only take one legal action to bankrupt you.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 02:23
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Dan Lucas wrote:
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Never heard of anyone being sued. Have you?
No. I thought not.
I would just point out here that corporates dislike the risk of a court battle, and will prefer an out-of-court settlement if they think there is a possibility that they may not win. Such settlements invariably include confidentiality clauses, otherwise the most important element of risk for the company - reputational - is not nullified and their motivation to settle is reduced dramatically.
So even if there were a dispute serious enough that both sides get lawyered up, and I agree that is probably rare, the likelihood of hearing either side talking about it after the fact would be extremely low. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. And it might only take one legal action to bankrupt you.
Regards,
Dan
Hi Dan,
Fair points.
Though, reputational risk generally refers to illegal and embarrassing actions/omissions on the part of company employees/associates, etc... which actually pose such a risk. e.g. from the lowly bank employee syphoning off 10 cents from 10 million accounts to senior management insider trading.
But not by suppliers; in this case a shoddy translation. I can't see a company anticipating any risk to them for taking a 3rd party to court. They do it all the time.
And to reiterate, I'm not saying the defendant (in this case a translator), is going to publish their misfortunes on their Facebook page. Just that, even if it's a friend of a friend of a colleague of a colleague you're going to find out about it eventually. After a few decades I'm still waiting to hear (even as a mere rumour) of any occasion when XXX was taken to court by a client. Not once.
"One legal action can bankrupt you." Naturally. That's why I used the example of lightning.
Provided I don't take shelter under that sole tree in the middle of a field during an electrical storm, I'll take my chances....
[Edited at 2018-03-03 02:44 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:23
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Andy Watkinson wrote:
"One legal action can bankrupt you." Naturally. That's why I used the example of lightning.
Provided I don't take shelter under that sole tree in the middle of a field during an electrical storm, I'll take my chances....
Sure. I am not as sanguine as yourself, having observed, at close quarters, legal interactions that involved NDAs. My experience is that out-of-court settlements with confidentiality strings attached absolutely do happen at an individual level even where the stakes are (from a corporate perspective) quite small.
Nevertheless, we all have different appetites for risk. What matters is that people understand what they are getting into and the worst-case regret scenario. What they decide to do with that understanding is up to them. We have agency, imperfect as it may be.
Dan
| | | | | Limited company protection | Mar 2, 2018 |
Forgive me if I’m wrong, Dan, but don’t you, like me, hide behind a limited liability company?
Not much point in suing me for an eight-year-old Dell and a few dried-up Bics.
| | | | | I'm with Dan... | Mar 2, 2018 |
... on this one. Why take avoidable risks?
Another thought: where there is no SLA, might it not be a good idea to add small print to the delivery email limiting liability to the value of the job?
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 02:23
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Dan Lucas wrote:
Sure. I am not as sanguine as yourself, having observed, at close quarters, legal interactions that involved NDAs.
Involving freelance translators?
| | |
|
|
|
Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:23
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Chris S wrote:
Forgive me if I’m wrong, Dan, but don’t you, like me, hide behind a limited liability company?
Not much point in suing me for an eight-year-old Dell and a few dried-up Bics.
On the contrary, using a limited company involves meeting increasingly stringent disclosure requirements. It results in more, not less transparency. My clients (potential and actual) know exactly who I am, and where I work.
And if I am negligent in my duties as a director, the limited company will not save me - I can be sued...
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:23
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Other professionals | Mar 2, 2018 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Involving freelance translators?
I don't see how that is relevant. It was professionals in another area, but the people in question were dealing with material that was in most cases less sensitive than the (material, non-public) information that comes across my desk almost every day as a translator. I see no reason to assume that a corporate would not act seek to impose similar legal restrictions on freelancers in similar circumstances.
It might be as well to bear in mind that you cannot disprove the existence of black swans by simply claiming you personally have only ever seen white swans.
Dan
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 02:23
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Dan Lucas wrote:
Andy Watkinson wrote:
Involving freelance translators?
I don't see how that is relevant. It was professionals in another area...
What's irrelevant is bringing up "professionals in another area" in a translators' forum specifically referring to freelance translators.
Who cares what "professionals in another area" get up to?
The OP - a translator - was concerned about the language used in a client contract and my point was that she shouldn't be. It makes no sense for a client to sue anyone for, as Chris says, "(...) an eight-year-old Dell and a few dried-up Bics."
I suppose you believe in unicorns. You've never seen one or met anyone who's seen one.
But that's not stopping you, I suppose.
| | | | | Ltd company protection | Mar 2, 2018 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
And if I am negligent in my duties as a director, the limited company will not save me - I can be sued...
Yes, but mistranslating something isn’t neglecting your duties as a director. The protection against being sued for a few unfortunate translation errors is real.
| | |
|
|
|
| Other considerations | Mar 4, 2018 |
I've seen another 2017 thread (with contributions from Chris S and others) that raised the question, in relation to liability, of whether the translator's work can be seen as an end product or simply a semi-finished product to be worked on and finished by the entity commissioning the work.
The view was expressed, among others, that translators should view their work as a finished product and that proper revision was their responsibility.
I think this reflects the posi... See more I've seen another 2017 thread (with contributions from Chris S and others) that raised the question, in relation to liability, of whether the translator's work can be seen as an end product or simply a semi-finished product to be worked on and finished by the entity commissioning the work.
The view was expressed, among others, that translators should view their work as a finished product and that proper revision was their responsibility.
I think this reflects the position of translators working directly with end clients. Translators working with TSPs are often involved in processes described in detail on agency websites, governed by regulations (ISO - DIN EN) that specifically require revision/reviewing to be done by someone other than the translator (I would imagine for obvious reasons). There is also a process by which the TSP 'signs off' on the work: accepts it and deems it fit. It seems that this step - and the third party revision/review - does serve to insulate the translator from liability to an extent.
There is another and perhaps more crucial aspect: once the agency has taken my work, reviewed and accepted it, it becomes theirs to do with what they please, and that "what they please" is problematic, since it might will give rise to forms of liability over which I have no control.
What I mean is that were I to deliver the translation to the end client I might add certain conditions/reservations/riders to it. I might say that the translation was an accurate and diligent translation of a legal text but that it should be noted that it is not the work of a lawyer. In other words, translation might be used to understand briefs filed in another language but shouldn't be used to produce briefs to be filed directly. Equally translations of advertising copy and slogans of multinationals (the result of months of team effort in the source language) should not be used directly as slogans or advertising copy without input from target language copy writers.
Good TSPs understand this and work on adjusting the expectations of their clients. One excellent agency head, a Frenchman based in London, once commented to me regarding legal work, "We work hard to educate our clients regarding the obvious limitations applying to work performed urgently and for a reasonable price." But many TSPs slip aside like toreros at the sign of an oncoming irate client filled with wrongly inflated expectations, leaving them to charge and possibly the gore the unsuspecting translator at will.
[Modificato alle 2018-03-04 09:50 GMT]
[Modificato alle 2018-03-04 09:51 GMT]
[Modificato alle 2018-03-04 14:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Help with understanding legalese/legal impacts (liability; agency's SLA) | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
