| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | translation rates are falling - why? Thread poster: Telesforo Fernandez (X)
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| Price is king... apparently. | Jun 3, 2009 |
I 100% agree with Deolinda:
"...professionalization is a collective effort rather than an individual one... A profession that succeeds in mystifing its expertise is able to control the market prohibiting interlopers from practicing the profession. We only have to look at lawyers and medical doctors to see that professions gain power by defining the needs of their clients rather than allowing the clients to set the agenda."
Here is my email correspondence with the presid... See more I 100% agree with Deolinda:
"...professionalization is a collective effort rather than an individual one... A profession that succeeds in mystifing its expertise is able to control the market prohibiting interlopers from practicing the profession. We only have to look at lawyers and medical doctors to see that professions gain power by defining the needs of their clients rather than allowing the clients to set the agenda."
Here is my email correspondence with the president of a US agency today:
-Hi Marcia, What is your rate per word?
-Hi XXXX. Thanks for your email. My rates are detailed in my CV.
-Our rate is .04-.05 cents per word. Let me know.
-Sorry, I can't accept this, but thank-you anyway.
-In today’s economy, I just can’t at that rate.
-As a professional translator who cares about the future of my profession I refuse to take part in the trend of competing only on price and I cannot accept your rates. I'm not selling a commodity but rather a service and my time. I don't understand why some agencies don't see that if they market translation as cheap and fast, rather than as a premium service, rates and profit will continue to fall and the industry as a whole will continue to struggle. You don't see any lawyers or doctors offering lower rates or faster service because the economy is in crisis.
-In today’s economy, price is king despite taking the rest into consideration
We offer high quality too but to win government contract and to work with big companies, price is becoming a bigger factor in 2008-2009 than ever
Budgets are becoming tighter no matter where you or who work with.
We do not control the economy and budget, our clients do.
It is what it is!
We need to change client expectations. People see paying premium prices for legal or medical services as a necessary evil, whereas having to get something translated is seen as an annoyance and a frustration and responding to this by saying “okay, well we’ll make it cheaper and faster for you” isn’t doing anybody any favours. My previous boss (a vet) couldn’t understand why I was studying translation when “surely you can just put stuff through an online translator?” I don’t think he would have been very amused if the product information for the pharmaceutical products we used in the surgery had been put through google translate. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Dixon 
Brazil
Local time: 12:04
Portuguese to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Rates in Brazil | Feb 4, 2010 |
In Brazil the rates for translation work must be among the lowest in the world. I have even seen jobs offered at E$ 0.004 per word. Contrary to what has been mentioned here, that the Southern Hemisphere tends to have lower cost of living, my view is that this is definitely not the case in Brazil, where housing is among the most expensive in the world (at least in big cities), food is terribly expensive and health insurance is a rip-off (Note: the public health system is a joke here, people die i... See more In Brazil the rates for translation work must be among the lowest in the world. I have even seen jobs offered at E$ 0.004 per word. Contrary to what has been mentioned here, that the Southern Hemisphere tends to have lower cost of living, my view is that this is definitely not the case in Brazil, where housing is among the most expensive in the world (at least in big cities), food is terribly expensive and health insurance is a rip-off (Note: the public health system is a joke here, people die in queues waiting for treatment, and hospitals get so full that patients are often left in the corridors or even in the street). So the rates are definitely not enough to live on.
Well, back to my main point, the causes of low rates. In Brazil, we have a saturated market and anyone who speaks a kind of English (or other language) thinks he or she can translate, and if they offer low rates they get work. Many clients (in general, not only for translation work) put price before quality. Another problem, as mentioned, is the advent of CAT tools which have pushed rates down. Another point is machine translation, preferred by many companies as a cost-cutting measure. In addition, some prospective clients will demand substantial discounts and if you don't give it they will go to another outsourcer who will.
I would definitely support the idea of a worldwide minimum rate for translation work, although it would be difficult to enforce, IMHO. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | translation rates are falling - why? | Feb 4, 2010 |
Henry D wrote:
Some good points have been made regarding pricing, but in my opinion, the major pricing driver has been overlooked in this thread.
If you want to talk about pricing, you have to consider the increases in translator productivity brought on by CAT tools, online searches, electronic dictionaries, KudoZ, etc.
It is easier to translate 2000 words today than it was 10 or even 5 years ago, when chances are, you would not even receive the source document in electronic form.
Economics says that the increases in productivity should bring down per-word rates, even if per-hour rates rise (as inflation would dictate.)
The rest, I would say, is supply-and-demand. If you want to command higher rates, you have to specialize. Become an expert in a niche, or make your offering unique (ex: form a team to be faster.)
Henry
Hi, Henry: I agree with you that translators should improve his/her productivity by means of modern CAT/TEnTs. But as entrepreneur, I do not get the point. Are you telling us we should buy an expensive Porsche car to distribute the post quicker, but we should give our job away to benefit the receivers, instead of to cash quite more to write down our very expensive working tools as soon as possible? If so, I suspect translation clients should beginn to think about to translate (and to invest) themselves...
[Editado a las 2010-02-04 19:50 GMT]
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:04
French to German
+ ...
| Translation rates are falling - why? | Feb 4, 2010 |
Not an overly complicated question.
Rates are falling because translation is seen as an industry, with industrial processes and automation shrinking the human factor to the lowest possible level: the level of a more or less qualified machine operator.
What the great LSP's and global player companies want is a standardized "product" that can be swallowed worldwide without too much effort.
Give them that product, cheaper year after year, and they will be sa... See more Not an overly complicated question.
Rates are falling because translation is seen as an industry, with industrial processes and automation shrinking the human factor to the lowest possible level: the level of a more or less qualified machine operator.
What the great LSP's and global player companies want is a standardized "product" that can be swallowed worldwide without too much effort.
Give them that product, cheaper year after year, and they will be satisfied. And while you are at it, do not forget to entrust them all your data - TM's, glossaries, list of clients, annual turnover figures - for storage and plundering; it will greatly facilitate your becoming dispensable (at no cost for them, of course!)...
There is nothing more to add, except that you will never get a Bentley for the price of a Tata (or a Mac for the price of a Windows-based subnotebook). Time for an in-depth reflexion about your position on the market, your business plans and your goals. Period.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 20:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Time for an in-depth reflexion about your position on the market, your business plans and your goals. Period.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 20:33 GMT]
What would you recommend to an individual translator (or interpreter)? Can one person with the right attitude influence this situation? What can be done to improve it?
| | | | | Am I the only one... | Feb 4, 2010 |
... who finds it a bit interesting that this thread has continued since 2001?
Through bust and boom and back again.
| | | | | The reason (IMHO) | Feb 4, 2010 |
The price side of this industry usually damaged by the persons who uses this profession as an extra income along with their first works.
Teachers, MBA students, Lawyers, Marketers, Web Developers and so on.
The logic is simple here - If you use translation business as an extra income along with your primary job, then you may easily drop all your expectations from this profession (you may even live without it).
And step by step the prices are going down.
... See more The price side of this industry usually damaged by the persons who uses this profession as an extra income along with their first works.
Teachers, MBA students, Lawyers, Marketers, Web Developers and so on.
The logic is simple here - If you use translation business as an extra income along with your primary job, then you may easily drop all your expectations from this profession (you may even live without it).
And step by step the prices are going down.
And people began talking
A: I have a document needs to be translated, do you know any agency?
B: Why agency? There is a .... language teacher/MBA student/etc. We can ask her/him and definitely would be cheaper.
And they do so
The remnants of this action:
-For the person "A" translation is no more an activity which needs to be done by the persons who works in this industry, but becomes an activity that can be translated by everyone, even by the MACHINES.
-The person who translates it, opens a hole into the body of the industry and industry begins loosing blood, power, respect from this hole.
-After getting more courage from the society the so called translator begins to expand his/her cheaper services in order to develop this hole.
In this world there are strict rules which come from the nature.
You can not live more than one life-time (at least in our days)
You can not love more than one person (I mean romance)
You can not be in more than one place (it is impossible)
So, in this case I see those who do this profession as an extra income, are the real actors that bring the damages to this profession.
Because they always treat translation like an adobted child.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 22:36 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | texjax DDS PhD
Local time: 10:04
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
| No, you are not... | Feb 4, 2010 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
... who finds it a bit interesting that this thread has continued since 2001?
Through bust and boom and back again.
Thank you
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 10:04
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Like other fields of the economy | Feb 4, 2010 |
Having come from the machining and manufacturing industry, I find the parallels very interesting and perhaps instructive. It used to be that an individual machinist or toolmaker could set up shop here in North America, charge a reasonable amount and use his skills to earn a decent living. In the last few decades, two factors came into play that have utterly changed the game, and I see the same factors working in the translation field. They are 1) offshore outsourcing and 2) automation.
<... See more Having come from the machining and manufacturing industry, I find the parallels very interesting and perhaps instructive. It used to be that an individual machinist or toolmaker could set up shop here in North America, charge a reasonable amount and use his skills to earn a decent living. In the last few decades, two factors came into play that have utterly changed the game, and I see the same factors working in the translation field. They are 1) offshore outsourcing and 2) automation.
All is not lost, either for the manufacturing industries or, I believe, the translation field, but its vital that we understand what's happening.
In a prior life I used to buy components for machinery. I found that you could buy them offshore at low cost. But what I also found was that a few, and only a few, North American and European (I'm speaking of Western Europe here, where costs are higher) suppliers "got it" in terms of being able to compete. Where low labour cost countries were able to compete simply on low rates of pay, the successful Western competitors turned to automation. In those industries there are some companies in high labour cost countries (such as the US and Canada) that are able to successfully compete with offshore low labour cost countries (such as China and India) through automation.
I believe that's where we are heading. The hard reality is that the market sets the price. We can try our best to keep prices up, and we should do that. But I think its vital that we as individual translators stay on top of the technological progress in our field and use them to increase productvity in terms of output per person. In the end, its not $ per word that matters, its $ per month.
We might not like it, but in comparison with other fields, its déja vu (pun intended) all over again. We're dealing with the irresistible forces of the market here, and I'm afraid the choice is to swim with it or get knocked out by it.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 23:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:04
French to German
+ ...
| Irresistible forces? | Feb 5, 2010 |
John Fossey wrote:
We might not like it, but in comparison with other fields, its déja vu (pun intended) all over again. We're dealing with the irresistible forces of the market here, and I'm afraid the choice is to swim with it or get knocked out by it.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 23:42 GMT]
Those "irresistible forces" are mainly human beings like you and me, making business decisions every day and certainly not for the wellbeing of the global human community. They just want to keep their heads over water, no matter how many others die from drowning. This is an ugly truth we should never forget, IMHO.
[Edited at 2010-02-05 07:44 GMT]
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:04
English to Polish
+ ...
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
John Fossey wrote:
We might not like it, but in comparison with other fields, its déja vu (pun intended) all over again. We're dealing with the irresistible forces of the market here, and I'm afraid the choice is to swim with it or get knocked out by it.
[Edited at 2010-02-04 23:42 GMT]
Those "irresistible forces" are mainly human beings like you and me, making business decisions every day and certainly not for the wellbeing of the global human community. They just want to keep their heads over water, no matter how many others die from drowning. This is an ugly truth we should never forget, IMHO.
Whether it's "ugly" is disputable. It's just the way it is. If people didn't primarily care about themselves (and to make it less "ugly", their families), we wouldn't have all the... you know how it goes.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:04
French to German
+ ...
| My primary point | Feb 5, 2010 |
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
Whether it's "ugly" is disputable. It's just the way it is. If people didn't primarily care about themselves (and to make it less "ugly", their families), we wouldn't have all the... you know how it goes.
Fully agreeing with that, Krzysztof. My main point being that there is really no need, in a modern society, to create concepts in order to let us forget (?) that there are human beings behind this anonymous entity called "the market".
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Tim Drayton
Cyprus
Local time: 17:04
Turkish to English
+ ...
| To go off on a tangent | Feb 5, 2010 |
Am I the only one to discover, when discussing remuneration with people in the wider community, the existence of a general perception that translators are very well paid, and indeed earn far too much for the simple task that they perform?
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:04
French to German
+ ...
| Quite the same | Feb 5, 2010 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Am I the only one to discover, when discussing remuneration with people in the wider community, the existence of a general perception that translators are very well paid, and indeed earn far too much for the simple task that they perform?
as most people in the wider community think that other liberal professionals are (pick your own). As an example, some of my friends and acquaintances find that "the carpets in a lawyer's office seem to be very expensive"...
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