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Commentary on rates by job poster(s) in their posts
Thread poster: Henry Hinds
df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 04:36
free exposure May 19, 2006

Daniel Ollivier wrote:
It will take much more than $0.015/word for that Libyan translation agency to get a broader exposure...


yep... it will also take translating their sales pitch into many languages of their newly open business world to post it on their web site.... which they are precisely doing with this "job offer": note that the "test translation" IS their sales pitch!!

and they're already, in less than 24 hours, received 44 of such free translations...

df


 
Evert DELOOF-SYS
Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 04:36
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Ignore those job offers May 19, 2006

Anabel Martínez wrote:

Who said best ignore it.


And yes, not always an easy thing to do, but you'll save yourself some valuable time and energy by simply ignoring such job offers.

On a last note, remember that you can enter your minimum rates in your profile page.
All jobs offering rates below your minimum rate won't show up in your mailbox...


 
Anabel Martínez
Anabel Martínez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:36
English to Spanish
+ ...
I got this offer in my mailbox... May 19, 2006

And is well below my minimum rate.

In any case, I believe by ignoring such things we'll keep damaging the profession. I thought this site was meant to unite us as professionals with the same issues, but then we can only ignore insults?

If there are people who bid, and there are 44 people now in less than 3 hours, with these rates and the tone used by the job poster, it means that it's high time all professionals had information on how things can be different. Or maybe I
... See more
And is well below my minimum rate.

In any case, I believe by ignoring such things we'll keep damaging the profession. I thought this site was meant to unite us as professionals with the same issues, but then we can only ignore insults?

If there are people who bid, and there are 44 people now in less than 3 hours, with these rates and the tone used by the job poster, it means that it's high time all professionals had information on how things can be different. Or maybe I am a dreamer and the reality is exactly what that post portrays?
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Susana Galilea
Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:36
English to Spanish
+ ...
I routinely ignore those job offers... May 19, 2006

Evert DELOOF-SYS wrote:

Anabel Martínez wrote:

Who said best ignore it.


And yes, not always an easy thing to do, but you'll save yourself some valuable time and energy by simply ignoring such job offers.

On a last note, remember that you can enter your minimum rates in your profile page.
All jobs offering rates below your minimum rate won't show up in your mailbox...


....and my minimum rates are set so these offers won't show up in my mailbox.

The problem remains, and I agree with colleagues who express dismay over how poorly this kind of posting reflects on this site. With all due respect, I feel this is not an issue that should simply be dropped.

Susana

[Edited at 2006-05-19 20:10]


 
Giles Watson
Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 04:36
Italian to English
In memoriam
If they're so cheap, you could always take advantage... May 19, 2006

... and outsource work to them.

Who knows? They might even be good.

FWIW

Giles


 
Henry Hinds
Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:36
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
In memoriam
My Feelings Entirely May 19, 2006

Susana said:

The problem remains, and I agree with colleagues who express dismay over how poorly this kind of posting reflects on this site. With all due respect, I feel this is not an issue that should simply be dropped.

Yes, it does reflect poorly on the site, and yes, something must be done.


 
texjax DDS PhD
texjax DDS PhD  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:36
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
I agree May 19, 2006


Yes, it does reflect poorly on the site ...



I entirely agree with you

tex


 
Evert DELOOF-SYS
Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 04:36
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Neither do I, but I don't make the laws on our planet May 19, 2006

Susana Galilea wrote:

The problem remains, and I agree with colleagues who express dismay over how poorly this kind of posting reflects on this site. With all due respect, I feel this is not an issue that should simply be dropped.

Susana


This issue has been discussed umpty times already (actually for as long as I can remember).
There's unfortunately nothing much we can do about it right now, in that we simply are not allowed to forbid job posters to offer insanely low rates.

But you may always voice your indignation directly to the outsourcer, ignore such offers, encourage colleagues not to work at below standard rates, set minimum rates in your profile page etc.

Any other ideas are always welcome.


 
Javier Herrera (X)
Javier Herrera (X)
Spanish
Nineteen posts in this thread in an hour and a half May 19, 2006

Looks like many people are not ignoring this kind of things.
And yes, this is extremely detrimental for the site. Next time you all attend a translators' event (not organised by Proz), I'm sure people always talk about this site, it's kind of the black beast of the profession.
Usual comments are more or less that "they post jobs at miserable rates and they keep complaining about them", a very unfair remark, since they is not the same person as they, but a
... See more
Looks like many people are not ignoring this kind of things.
And yes, this is extremely detrimental for the site. Next time you all attend a translators' event (not organised by Proz), I'm sure people always talk about this site, it's kind of the black beast of the profession.
Usual comments are more or less that "they post jobs at miserable rates and they keep complaining about them", a very unfair remark, since they is not the same person as they, but an excellent indication of how the reputation of many people who participate is damaged.
J.
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Susana Galilea
Susana Galilea  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:36
English to Spanish
+ ...
further thoughts... May 19, 2006

Perhaps as long as we continue to focus on the financial aspect, with the legal impossibility of setting minimums, things are bound to remain the same. What irks me about postings such as this one is that it does not abide by the rules of participation that us members agree to follow. As a member of this site, I agree to behave in a professional and respectful manner in all my interactions, and accept that a moderator will contact me if that is not the case. If I continue to break those rules, I... See more
Perhaps as long as we continue to focus on the financial aspect, with the legal impossibility of setting minimums, things are bound to remain the same. What irks me about postings such as this one is that it does not abide by the rules of participation that us members agree to follow. As a member of this site, I agree to behave in a professional and respectful manner in all my interactions, and accept that a moderator will contact me if that is not the case. If I continue to break those rules, I accept I may be banned from further use of this site. As a Platinum member, I agree my dues are invested in a professional site that will foster such an environment. When I see postings in the job section that address me and my colleagues as if we were a bunch of aficionados, this does not match my expectations of this site. I believe the same criteria that apply to our participation as members should apply to job posters. Professionalism has to do with more than rates, and should be an integral part of every offer and every interaction.

Respectfully,

Susana
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Dees
Dees  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:36
English to French
+ ...
Not acceptable May 19, 2006

If nothing can be done about posters offering such low rates, I think at least something should be done about the insulting tone of that job posting. It is not acceptable to read this on a professional site.

Could a job moderator contact the poster and edit the posting?

Thanks!


[Edited at 2006-05-19 21:28]


 
Dees
Dees  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:36
English to French
+ ...
My sentiments exactly! May 19, 2006

Susana Galilea wrote:

I believe the same criteria that apply to our participation as members should apply to job posters. Professionalism has to do with more than rates, and should be an integral part of every offer and every interaction.

Respectfully,

Susana


If job posters do not behave in a professional manner here (showing respect!), then they should be banned from posting jobs and maybe from the site as well. As simple as that I believe.

Have a good weekend, everyone!


 
Claudia Iglesias
Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 00:36
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Further thoughts May 19, 2006

I'm not going to comment on what has already been said, but this also shows that there are translators in such a need of work that they are willing to work for those rates.

And we should help them. Giles mentionned outsourcing, maybe, but also mentoring and educating globally, not only about translation skills but also marketing abilities.

Claudia


 
Evert DELOOF-SYS
Evert DELOOF-SYS  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 04:36
Member
English to Dutch
+ ...
Jobs Faq Item 21 May 19, 2006

Please also read Jobs FAQ item 21:

http://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=about#jobs_minimum_rate


21. Why doesn't ProZ.com set a minimum rate for translation?

At times, the suggestion has been made that site staff institute some form of technical mechanism to dictate minimums. Although ProZ.com has instituted certain mechanisms which
... See more
Please also read Jobs FAQ item 21:

http://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=about#jobs_minimum_rate


21. Why doesn't ProZ.com set a minimum rate for translation?

At times, the suggestion has been made that site staff institute some form of technical mechanism to dictate minimums. Although ProZ.com has instituted certain mechanisms which may help to stabilize rates (see the FAQ on rates), ProZ.com has no intention of instituting a minimum rate mechanism in the near future, for the following reasons:

(1) Even if it were conceptually possible and advisable to set a minimum rate, we would not currently have a means of enforcing it.
(2) Whether attempting to set a minimum is legal or not is an open question, and not one on which we have had adequate advice (comments from lawyers are welcome: http://www.proz.com/support )
(3) Other sites have attempted to set minimum rates, with no apparent effect.

It is in the interest of translators, and ProZ.com, for rates charged to be consistent with the demands of our challenging profession. To that end, ProZ.com's staff has welcomed and encouraged legal communication and cooperation among translators. But we believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers.
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Fernando Toledo
Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:36
German to Spanish
You can not write in this site May 19, 2006

Mitsuko Moine wrote:

If nothing can be done about posters offering such low rates, then I think at least something should be done about the insulting tone of that job posting.


About politic, religion, make jokes over some people, or insult anybody. In a second you get a "yellow card".

But it is not a joke?
It is not a insult?
Don't you lose your "faith"?
it this politically correct?

And to Giles
Giles Watson wrote:
If they're so cheap, you could always take advantage...

... and outsource work to them.

Who knows? They might even be good.

FWIW

Giles




Well, I can not say my opinion cause the rules in Proz.com


 
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