| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Courtesy in Kudoz - Am I nuts or what? Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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| No need to be friends for a personal favour | Sep 11, 2008 |
Kathryn Litherland wrote:
The other thing, to me, is that something like KudoZ to me feels like a vastly different thing than asking a personal favor of someone. If someone chooses to provide an answer, s/he does so because s/he wants to, not because I want them to.
Thanks Kathryn [sorry!]. Hm... My perspective is a bit different. To me Kudoz is like a room packed with people ─some of them friends, but a vast majority strangers─ who might be able to help me with some translation problem I have. I yell "Anybody out there knows what the heck this means... please?". It might be a cultural thing, but to me it would be quite natural to add the please as the last word of the question.
Unless everyone in the room is my friend (not the case in Kudoz), in which case saying "please" does cheapen the sentiment. You don't necessarily thank your friends all the time for every little bit of help. But you do thank people you just met... I fathom.
Cheers!
| | | | | Are 3 seconds risking the deadline? | Sep 11, 2008 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
I really don't think that not including a "thank you" in a question implies rudeness. As has been pointed out, askers are typically under deadline...
Hm... Yes, I hear that excuse many times. "Oh, sorry, I am working on a tight deadline so I have a right to be unpolite!". Sorry Robert, but the 3 seconds required to "thanks in advance" won't risk anyone's deadlines...
In the end, we must be mindful of the real world in which most of us function. Kudoz is primarily a means to an immediate end and not a leisurely lexicographical exercise.
Nobody believes it should be a leasurely exercise. Showing a tiny bit of courtesy would not make Kudoz a tupperware meeting.
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Over here in Spain we have lots of bullfighting and bull-related sayings. I am not too fond of bullfighting, but I would not ban bull sayings. One of them is "Entró como un toro en una cacharrería" (He/she came in as a bull in a pottery shop).
To me, yelling out your need in Kudoz without a tiny token of courtesy or appreciation feels like seeing a bull coming into the pottery shop and saying "You people! Help me NOW! I am in a hurry!"... Not good enough to deserve a reply, huh? S... See more Over here in Spain we have lots of bullfighting and bull-related sayings. I am not too fond of bullfighting, but I would not ban bull sayings. One of them is "Entró como un toro en una cacharrería" (He/she came in as a bull in a pottery shop).
To me, yelling out your need in Kudoz without a tiny token of courtesy or appreciation feels like seeing a bull coming into the pottery shop and saying "You people! Help me NOW! I am in a hurry!"... Not good enough to deserve a reply, huh? Specially, as I said at the very beginning, when we answerers are "saving their ass" and their deadline! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan 
Mexico
Local time: 18:44
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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| Social formulsim | Sep 11, 2008 |
When I walk down streets and sometimes help the poor with food or some coins, usually they say "thanx" or they smile. Of course I don't request an apology/explanation or devolution of my coins if they don't say anything. They are not forced to do so.
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| Kudoz is not charity | Sep 11, 2008 |
Yaotl Altan wrote:
When I walk down streets and sometimes help the poor with food or some coins, usually they say "thanx" or they smile. Of course I don't request an apology/explanation or devolution of my coins if they don't say anything. They are not forced to do so.
With due respect I don't think the situation is comparable Yaotl. Kudoz is not a charity. Or so I believe.
Askers are perfectly able ─or shoud be if they are translators─ to find a reply but would not do it or they believe that they don't have the time to do research. Kudoz askers have options but choose the quick way, whereas homeless don't have any option but to ask for money for food or shelter. Not quite the same!
| | | | Lynda Tharratt
Local time: 19:44
Member (2006)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| how long does it take to type "thanks!" or "please"? | Sep 11, 2008 |
I absolutely feel that courtesy should be shown, after all you are asking for help and nobody HAS to give it to you.
Let's say that you, the Kudoz visitor, are like a tourist standing on a street corner trying to make sense of your map. You stop a local passerby on the street and ask him how to get to the sight you want to see. He gives you your answer and maybe even leads you straight to this sight, even though he's busy with work. He may even give you some background information ... See more I absolutely feel that courtesy should be shown, after all you are asking for help and nobody HAS to give it to you.
Let's say that you, the Kudoz visitor, are like a tourist standing on a street corner trying to make sense of your map. You stop a local passerby on the street and ask him how to get to the sight you want to see. He gives you your answer and maybe even leads you straight to this sight, even though he's busy with work. He may even give you some background information about the sight you want to see. Do you then just walk away? Of course not! You say thank you, even to those who give you the wrong information but try to help you anyway.
(I guess you can tell I've got holidays on my mind!) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gina Ferlisi
Local time: 01:44
Member (2008)
Italian to English
+ ...
| i have seen worse things!! | Sep 11, 2008 |
I really don't think that not including a "thank you" in a question implies rudeness. I have seen more rudeness on my language pair kudoz , in particular there is a person who insults me in private sending very rude and offending emails because he thinks my answer is wrong and his answer is right ..thats the worse part of the kudoz ...that is what rudeness really is... not only a simply "thanks"
Also strange to see the same person putting the wrong answer and also insulting and swe... See more I really don't think that not including a "thank you" in a question implies rudeness. I have seen more rudeness on my language pair kudoz , in particular there is a person who insults me in private sending very rude and offending emails because he thinks my answer is wrong and his answer is right ..thats the worse part of the kudoz ...that is what rudeness really is... not only a simply "thanks"
Also strange to see the same person putting the wrong answer and also insulting and swearing when putting his disagree..seems incredibile that the mod's don't ban them from answering kudoz. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 21:44
Portuguese to English
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| Agree with Gina | Sep 12, 2008 |
They say that Americans just like to get to the point, so I guess that's why it has never occurred to me to put a "please" or "thank you in advance" when I post a question, although I always put a thanks when I choose an answer. I don't see anything wrong with saying please or thank you in the question...it just never occurred to me.
But I agree with Gina that it's not rude just to state the question simply, without "please" or "thanks". And I also have seen more rudeness when peopl... See more They say that Americans just like to get to the point, so I guess that's why it has never occurred to me to put a "please" or "thank you in advance" when I post a question, although I always put a thanks when I choose an answer. I don't see anything wrong with saying please or thank you in the question...it just never occurred to me.
But I agree with Gina that it's not rude just to state the question simply, without "please" or "thanks". And I also have seen more rudeness when people disagree with an answer someone has given.
Amy ▲ Collapse
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Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 18:44
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Gina Ferlisi wrote:
I really don't think that not including a "thank you" in a question implies rudeness. I have seen more rudeness on my language pair kudoz , in particular there is a person who insults me in private sending very rude and offending emails because he thinks my answer is wrong and his answer is right ..thats the worse part of the kudoz ...that is what rudeness really is... not only a simply "thanks"
Also strange to see the same person putting the wrong answer and also insulting and swearing when putting his disagree..seems incredibile that the mod's don't ban them from answering kudoz.
This is unacceptable and really rude. You should forward his/her messages to a moderator.
| | | | NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 19:44
French to English
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MODERATOR | Agree with Yaotl | Sep 12, 2008 |
There are rules against personal messages regarding KudoZ answers, as well as peer comments that are not linguistic in nature. If this has happened to you, Gina, or any other user or member, please contact the appropriate Moderator (and if there is no Moderator for your language pair, either submit a support ticket or contact a Moderator who can read the languages involved.)
Nancy
| | | | Paula Serrano
Argentina
Local time: 21:44
English to Spanish
+ ...
| It may be a personal thing, but... | Sep 12, 2008 |
...I really do feel thankful to people who answer my questions (the ones who make an effort, at least). I try to make my questions as clear as possible, provide context and comment on options I have discarded, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the person will make an effort to answer my question and support their answer with facts they may need to look up. So I normally thank them in advance, just in case I won't have the time to do it later when I choose an answer. I hardly believe mo... See more ...I really do feel thankful to people who answer my questions (the ones who make an effort, at least). I try to make my questions as clear as possible, provide context and comment on options I have discarded, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the person will make an effort to answer my question and support their answer with facts they may need to look up. So I normally thank them in advance, just in case I won't have the time to do it later when I choose an answer. I hardly believe most people are answering just for the points - I know I'm not when I try to answer a question...
However, I am curious now as to how non-Spanish-speaking people would not consider asking for much-needed help and getting it a favor. It seems like a cultural chasm...
Tomás Cano Binder wrote:
...It might be a cultural thing, but to me it would be quite natural to add the please as the last word of the question.
Cheers! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Courtesy eases our path through life | Sep 12, 2008 |
I'm big on saying please and thank you, but then I'm British - perhaps it's a national trait.
It seems to me that simple courtesy and a pleasant smile generally ease our path through life, so why not in Kudoz?
And I am indeed genuinely grateful for help received from Kudoz answerers. How long does it take to type the words please and thank you, anyway?
Thank you, again, all answerers to my questions!
Jenny.
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 16:44
English to German
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In memoriam | KudoZ is no vending machine | Sep 12, 2008 |
You type in a question, click: "Send", and a few minutes later an answer will fall out. And, hey!, you didn't even have to put in a coin! Right.
I appreciate "thank you" and "please". That's
1. What my mother taught me
2. What makes excellent and professional business communication
| | | | | Great summary! | Sep 12, 2008 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
You type in a question, click: "Send", and a few minutes later an answer will fall out. And, hey!, you didn't even have to put in a coin! Right.
Great stuff Nicole. Exactly my point. We are not an automatic translation server. There are people behind all this who don't see a penny for offering precise, professional help (well, at least that's the intention). The very least we can do is show a little bit of politeness toward those we don't know but are helping us.
It is discouraging enough to have to push Proz for improvements in Kudoz as a whole. Our only compensation for answering questions today is being treated as people.
[Edited at 2008-09-12 08:03]
| | | | Idoia Echenique (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:44
English to Spanish
| How do you ask for help in "real" life? | Sep 12, 2008 |
I cannot imagine myself knocking on my neighbours door, saying just "onion" and rushing back home with the onion to finish cooking my lunch without another word.
All right, this is the Internet and we have not much time for chatting here but, in front of each screen there is a person, most of the time working, and if this person is kind enough to stop whatever he/she is doing to help me, I think that the minimum that this person deserves is to know what my precise doubt is (context... See more I cannot imagine myself knocking on my neighbours door, saying just "onion" and rushing back home with the onion to finish cooking my lunch without another word.
All right, this is the Internet and we have not much time for chatting here but, in front of each screen there is a person, most of the time working, and if this person is kind enough to stop whatever he/she is doing to help me, I think that the minimum that this person deserves is to know what my precise doubt is (context!) and "please" or "thanks".
Idoia ▲ Collapse
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