Could we have (Platinum) members rates statistics? Thread poster: Ana Cuesta
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Ana Cuesta 
Spain
Local time: 02:13
English to Spanish
Could we have members rates statistics, similar to the community ones we have now but using only members (ie. Platinum) rates?
I think it would be informative to be able to compare both sets of data. The way I see it, in mature, stable markets they should be pretty similar but in more volatile markets/pairs (like my own English>Spanish) with a high proportion of part-timers (no offense intended, I once was one myself), novices and wannabes which may not even be around in 12 months... See more Could we have members rates statistics, similar to the community ones we have now but using only members (ie. Platinum) rates?
I think it would be informative to be able to compare both sets of data. The way I see it, in mature, stable markets they should be pretty similar but in more volatile markets/pairs (like my own English>Spanish) with a high proportion of part-timers (no offense intended, I once was one myself), novices and wannabes which may not even be around in 12 months’ time (and which, I assume, are less likely to be paying members), differences could be significant and, if that is the case, definitely informative. And hopefully it shouldn’t be too hard on the programming front (plus it could end up being a psychological incentive for some people to become Platinum/member… ok, just trying to give Proz stuff an added motivation for the extra work
What do others think?
[Edited at 2006-05-14 09:07] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | rates are rates-no difference between Plat and non-Plat members | May 14, 2006 |
Ana Cuesta wrote:
Could we have members rates statistics, similar to the community ones we have now but using only members (ie. Platinum) rates?
I think it would be informative to be able to compare both sets of data. The way I see it, in mature, stable markets they should be pretty similar but in more volatile markets/pairs (like my own English>Spanish) with a high proportion of part-timers (no offense intended, I once was one myself), novices and wannabes which may not even be around in 12 months’ time (and which, I assume, are less likely to be paying members), differences could be significant and, if that is the case, definitely informative. And hopefully it shouldn’t be too hard on the programming front (plus it could end up being a psychological incentive for some people to become Platinum/member… ok, just trying to give Proz stuff an added motivation for the extra work
What do others think?
[Edited at 2006-05-14 09:07]
I have been a 'paying member' since 2003, but fail to see how being Plat makes me any different/better/worse than any other translator on the site, including those who don't pay. It's a question of deciding to spend the money or not. I have never seen it as any sort of 'upgrade' of my (or anyone else's) translation skills. Or seen non-payers as 'lesser' translators.
In this sense, rates are rates and showing the community rates is more than enough. Fwiw, I really don't think the Proz staff need any additional ideas on how to 'motivate' people into paying. They are doing just fine as is. 
[Edited at 2006-05-14 09:20]
| | | | Imad Almaghary (X)
Local time: 03:13
English to Arabic
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| Rates are rates | May 14, 2006 |
Good morning friends
Actually I have been non-paying member for a long time and my rates are similar to paying members. I think the skill of translation is not related to payment for membership. To pay for membership does not mean that the translator is skillful or not in other words it is not a measuring factor.
Just think of improving your language because many other companies contact me giving the job without asking me for being busy or not just they send me the job immedi... See more Good morning friends
Actually I have been non-paying member for a long time and my rates are similar to paying members. I think the skill of translation is not related to payment for membership. To pay for membership does not mean that the translator is skillful or not in other words it is not a measuring factor.
Just think of improving your language because many other companies contact me giving the job without asking me for being busy or not just they send me the job immediately.
I think proz staff are doing a very great job more than others.
Rates are rates.
Yours
Mr. Imad ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ana Cuesta
Spain
Local time: 02:13
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Rates are not only related to quality... | May 14, 2006 |
I never meant to imply that non paying members were less translators or worst translators than paying ones. I only went Platinum last year and neither my rates nor my value as a translator have changed either. As I said, in mature markets I would expect to see no difference among both sets of data.
My idea was intended just to try and filter out from the statistics those rates of people who have just entered the market and have no idea how to price themselves (we have people asking ... See more I never meant to imply that non paying members were less translators or worst translators than paying ones. I only went Platinum last year and neither my rates nor my value as a translator have changed either. As I said, in mature markets I would expect to see no difference among both sets of data.
My idea was intended just to try and filter out from the statistics those rates of people who have just entered the market and have no idea how to price themselves (we have people asking how much should I charge? and subsequent endless discussions about that in the Spanish forum every day) or are working part-time on the side (not always legally, again I could pose you a loooot of examples of that happening in my home country) and so see translation as a way to get some extra money and not a way to make a living, which is reflected in the rates they can "afford" to charge.
My assumption was that there would be a higher proportion of people actually making a living from translation in the paying ranks than on the non-paying ones (just a matter of likelihood, no value judgments here) and that knowing how much is charging the people actually making a living from it would be more informative (maybe even eye-opening) that knowing what is charging the people that sees translation as a retirement pastime, have just found the site and entered the same rates they found in a few profiles they browsed, etc...
As for ProZ staff doing a great job already, sure they are, but if they open a forum for suggestions about how to improve it even further, I'll feel free to contribute, if you don't mind ▲ Collapse
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Imad Almaghary (X)
Local time: 03:13
English to Arabic
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| What do you mean exactly though??? | May 14, 2006 |
Dear Ana
I read the whole page again and tried to get something specific. I think the translator who accepts less than 0.05 USD is not a good translator. The statistics range between 0.05 and 0.1 USD.
Thanks Ana
| | | | df49f (X)
France
Local time: 02:13
| about non-paying members' rate statistics... | May 14, 2006 |
Ana Cuesta wrote:
Could we have members rates statistics, similar to the community ones we have now but using only members (ie. Platinum) rates?
I think it would be informative to be able to compare both sets of data. The way I see it, in mature, stable markets they should be pretty similar but in more volatile markets/pairs (like my own English>Spanish) with a high proportion of part-timers (no offense intended, I once was one myself), novices and wannabes which may not even be around in 12 months’ time (and which, I assume, are less likely to be paying members), differences could be significant and, if that is the case, definitely informative... (plus it could end up being a psychological incentive for some people to become Platinum/member…)
What do others think?
Indeed it might be very "informative": it might even show that the rates of many "non-paying members" are higher in both mature and emerging markets, quite simply because many of us "non-paying members", having gained recognized competence and enjoying a well-established and loyal clientele, are therefore very busy and therefore charge high rates and consequently have absolutely NO need whatsoever for either the exposure on proz or the privilege of asking endless lists of questions: hence we are the ones who are much "less likely to be paying members", unlike the "novices, part-timers, half-retired and wannabes" who have been massively joining the club and paying dues for that privilege (particularly noticeable since the change in Nber-of questions rules) and whose profiles show rates (even in high-cost "mature" European countries) well below what can be regarded as decent market rates (easy to verify: count the number of Blue Ribbon questions on any day vs. others vs. non-paying members who hardly ever ask any question, and check their respective profiles for rates).
My point is that many of us non-paying members may quite possibly be the ones who are driving UP the average overall rate statistics! (not to mention contributing to driving up the quality of Kudoz answers... and not to mention that we don't clutter kudoz with endless questions... but that's another subject).
PS: there's no need for any additional "psychological incentive for becoming a member": the only incentive needed already exists: it's called the right to ask 15 questions a day and get translated free of charge a text that should have gone to a real and competent translator instead of a clueless improvised wannabe (novice or not)...
df
| | | | Ana Cuesta
Spain
Local time: 02:13
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Well, that's another possibility... | May 14, 2006 |
df49f wrote:
Indeed it might be very "informative": it might even show that the rates of many "non-paying members" are higher in both mature and emerging markets, quite simply because many of us "non-paying members", having gained recognized competence and enjoying a well-established and loyal clientele, are therefore very busy and therefore charge high rates and consequently have absolutely NO need whatsoever for either the exposure on proz or the privilege of asking endless lists of questions: hence we are the ones who are much "less likely to be paying members", unlike the "novices, part-timers, half-retired and wannabes" who have been massively joining the club and paying dues for that privilege (particularly noticeable since the change in Nber-of questions rules) and whose profiles show rates (even in high-cost "mature" European countries) well below what can be regarded as decent market rates (easy to verify: count the number of Blue Ribbon questions on any day vs. others vs. non-paying members who hardly ever ask any question, and check their respective profiles for rates).
My point is that many of us non-paying members may quite possibly be the ones who are driving UP the average overall rate statistics! (not to mention contributing to driving up the quality of Kudoz answers... and not to mention that we don't clutter kudoz with endless questions... but that's another subject).
PS: there's no need for any additional "psychological incentive for becoming a member": the only incentive needed already exists: it's called the right to ask 15 questions a day and get translated free of charge a text that should have gone to a real and competent translator instead of a clueless improvised wannabe (novice or not)...
df
Uhm, that's another way of seeing it, of course. My assumption was that people not serious about translation or for whatever reason not making a life out of it would have no reason/will to invest money into membership, but it didn't occur to me to get things like rights to post kudoz questions into the equation. You've definitely given me some food for thought... I guess what I would like to see then is something like statistics from people with X years' (preferably full-time) experience, but maybe that would be a little more tricky to program...
[Edited at 2006-05-14 14:53]
| | | | Ana Cuesta
Spain
Local time: 02:13
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER | Apologies if I don't make much sense | May 14, 2006 |
Imad Almaghary wrote:
Dear Ana
I read the whole page again and tried to get something specific. I think the translator who accepts less than 0.05 USD is not a good translator. The statistics range between 0.05 and 0.1 USD.
Thanks Ana
I see I am not making myself understood and I'm probably making false assumptions too. All I mean is that while it is certainly useful to have statistical rates information, I find the kind of unfiltered information we have now is not so useful and could be even misleading since it does reflect not only the rates professional translators are charging but also any rate anyone that opens an almost anonimous profile feels like entering...
My proposal was meant to be some sort of easy to implement filter, based in a) my probably wrong assumption that non-professionals wouldn't be interested in paying for membership, and b) the fact that paying members have necessarily identified themselves as real people (by way of a credit card, bank account or whatever).
But I'm willing to accept it's probably not so easy...
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Kunik
Local time: 02:13
English to Latvian
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| With all due respect... | May 14, 2006 |
Imad Almaghary wrote:
I think the translator who accepts less than 0.05 USD is not a good translator.
... such an assumption is ridiculous. It is true that some of the good translators who charge low rates (this, by the way, depends on the language combination and country, and many other factors) are selling themselves short, do not realize their "market value", and/or are simply bad enterpreneurs, but that does not make them bad translators.
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 02:13
English to German
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| Translation quality vs. business skills | May 14, 2006 |
Confirming Agnese's observation:
It is true that some of the good translators who charge low rates (this, by the way, depends on the language combination and country, and many other factors) are selling themselves short, do not realize their "market value", and/or are simply bad enterpreneurs, but that does not make them bad translators.
Having monitored market activity on and around ProZ.com for several years now, I can confirm that there's a severe shortage of business skills in the translator community. Getting better, but we're far from reaching a satisfactory level. Working on that, though...
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 02:13
German to English
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| Could we have (Platinum) members rates statistics? | May 15, 2006 |
By no means all users (non-Platinum) or members (Platinum) indicate their rates, and personally I am very sceptical that those who do are necessarily representative.
Marc
| | | | Imad Almaghary (X)
Local time: 03:13
English to Arabic
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| Urgent question | May 15, 2006 |
Good morning once again and a very nice warm welcome
The question that remains to be seen is whether paying members, regardless of their rates, get continuous jobs during their membership period or not.
If the answer is yes then the assumption of Ana is right that paying members consider themselves as real people and non professionals are not interested in payment for membership.
Confirmation for what Ralf has mentioned in terms of getting shortage of business sk... See more Good morning once again and a very nice warm welcome
The question that remains to be seen is whether paying members, regardless of their rates, get continuous jobs during their membership period or not.
If the answer is yes then the assumption of Ana is right that paying members consider themselves as real people and non professionals are not interested in payment for membership.
Confirmation for what Ralf has mentioned in terms of getting shortage of business skills of translators.
Yours
Mr. Imad ▲ Collapse
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Irene N
United States
Local time: 19:13
English to Russian
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| At a risk of reiterating myself more than once | May 18, 2006 |
I honestly believe that the only true rate-related statistics would be as follows (I doubt though that obtaining such statistics is in any way possible):
Total number of jobs posted over, say, 1 quarter (all languages).
Respective percentages of jobs won by 2(sic!)-5-centers, 6-10-centers, 11-15-centers and up.
Membership has nothing to do with anything in this matter. IMHO.
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