| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Is it ethical/fair to use Kudoz for a translation test? Thread poster: Jennifer Forbes
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Nicole Schnell 
United States
Local time: 15:19
English to German
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In memoriam | @Jenny: I didn't mean you, otherwise I would have addressed you directly | May 15, 2012 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Nicole Schnell wrote:
However - be aware that the prospective client, who probably found you on proZ.com, might watch your KudoZ activities.
Nicole, I think you may have misunderstood. It is not *I* who am asking Kudoz questions for a test, or asking whether it is ethical for ME to do so, but another translator. The context the asker quotes in the questions is identical to parts of the test I did for this client, who, as far as I can remember, didn't find me on Proz.
J
"You" is anyone who posts KudoZ questions for any translation test.
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 00:19
German to English
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| What is a test for? | May 15, 2012 |
Surely, knowledge of individual words is no criterion whatsoever of a good translator - it's how you put htose words into understandable text that matters. The actual words you know are probably a matter of accident.
Where you get the words you need is your own business - from a dictionary, from Kudoz, from your own stock of knowledge. I would have no problem with someone trying to get help from KudoZ if I had set a test translation. I don't thinkit is cheating or unethical, I would... See more Surely, knowledge of individual words is no criterion whatsoever of a good translator - it's how you put htose words into understandable text that matters. The actual words you know are probably a matter of accident.
Where you get the words you need is your own business - from a dictionary, from Kudoz, from your own stock of knowledge. I would have no problem with someone trying to get help from KudoZ if I had set a test translation. I don't thinkit is cheating or unethical, I would call it resourceful. (mind you, if there is a box to tick to say this is for a test, then not to do so is unethical). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thomas Pfann
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:19
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
| Interested in results, not processes | May 15, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Thomas Pfann wrote:
Unless it was specified that the test translation should be carried out without the help of others or without using online references, then I do not see it as a problem at all.
But... isn't the goal of a test to evaluate your skills as a translator? If I am hiring someone I am hiring that person, and not other people this person might eventually ask and who might not be available in the future.
Not necessarily. A large part of the translator's skill is his or her ability to do research. When I am hiring a translator I am not only (not at all?) interested in how the translator achieves the result, I am much more interested in the result itself (ie. that I get exactly what I asked for).
| | | | | Ethical behaviour | May 15, 2012 |
If one is offered a job and can see it is so beyond one's capabilities that even getting through the test can't be done just by using dictionaries and one's own online research, then the ethical thing to do would be to politely turn down the job.
Imo
[Edited at 2012-05-15 12:10 GMT]
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 00:19
Spanish to English
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I was going to say "it depends", but if it's for an OUTSOURCER'S test to assess if someone is worth their salt as a translator and a possible employee/collaborator/service provider, then definitely not.
However, if it were for homework or a college test where the use of internet resources was permitted, then I think it would be OK.
| | | | | We are supposed to be experts | May 15, 2012 |
Thomas Pfann wrote:
Not necessarily. A large part of the translator's skill is his or her ability to do research. When I am hiring a translator I am not only (not at all?) interested in how the translator achieves the result, I am much more interested in the result itself (ie. that I get exactly what I asked for).
OK, but clearly you do not want to go to the office of a dentist who has to call some colleagues to ask what to do when you are sitting in the chair with half a dozen metal parts in your mouth in the middle of your root canal procedure, do you?
Come on, my friend: when outsourcers hire us, they expect us to be people who know what's to be done, most especially when they have selected us for a test based on what we said we know.
[Edited at 2012-05-15 12:25 GMT]
| | | | | It's not exactly the same situation | May 15, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
OK, but clearly you do not want to go to the office of a dentist who has to call some colleagues to ask what to do when you are sitting in the chair with half a dozen metal parts in your mouth in the middle of your root canal procedure, do you?
Come on, my friend: when outsourcers hire us, they expect us to be people who know what's to be done, most especially when they have selected us for a test based on what we said we know.
[Edited at 2012-05-15 12:25 GMT]
To an experienced dentist majority of cases will be quite standard and indeed no consultation will be required. But frequently treatment has several stages and I expect that in more complex cases a dentist after initial treatment may wish to consult a colleague as to the optimal treatment. TBH I believe that consulting other professionals is quite common practice in many professions.
==================
Edited to add:
Still I could agree that a public forum in not the best place to discuss clients' problems.
Best Regards
Stanislaw
[Edited at 2012-05-15 12:46 GMT]
| | | | Thomas Pfann
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:19
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Come on, my friend: when outsourcers hire us, they expect us to be people who know what's to be done, most especially when they have selected us for a test based on what we said we know.
Yes, of course. And I think we can actually all agree on this one. All I'm saying is that no one can claim to know everything - not even everything in their particular field of expertise.
And to get back to your dentist example. When my dentist results a colleague before deciding how to treat me I don't think I would worry. Isn't that exactly what they do and should do?
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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As far as the test translation is to reveal one’s ability to cope with the task under certain circumstances, I agree that it really depends on whether the client explicitly stated they required doing it without any ‘external’ sources and help.
To my mind, the question is very similar to ‘Is it ethical/fair to use glossaries/ dictionaries/ references/ CAT's, the Internet, and so on for a translation test?’
However, most clients just need the job properly... See more As far as the test translation is to reveal one’s ability to cope with the task under certain circumstances, I agree that it really depends on whether the client explicitly stated they required doing it without any ‘external’ sources and help.
To my mind, the question is very similar to ‘Is it ethical/fair to use glossaries/ dictionaries/ references/ CAT's, the Internet, and so on for a translation test?’
However, most clients just need the job properly done—they don’t care much about possible nuances translators might have had, only the result matters.
On the other hand, I know a couple of clients who used KudoZ to test translators for their projects and then contacted the best ones.
Why not? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne Bohy
France
Local time: 00:19
English to French
| Confidentiality | May 15, 2012 |
In my opinion, a translation test is confidential information of the company/agency who created it. It is "confidential" in such way that replacing any company or brand name by XXX is not enough to allow somebody to disclose some parts publicly! You can expect that the company/agency has carefully chosen each word, and certainly doesn't want to see its test material exposed and (worse) partially translated on the Internet.
I think it's acceptable to inform the company/agency that its te... See more In my opinion, a translation test is confidential information of the company/agency who created it. It is "confidential" in such way that replacing any company or brand name by XXX is not enough to allow somebody to disclose some parts publicly! You can expect that the company/agency has carefully chosen each word, and certainly doesn't want to see its test material exposed and (worse) partially translated on the Internet.
I think it's acceptable to inform the company/agency that its test material is not 100% confidential anymore, and that several parts of it are accessible on the Net (just as you do, I suppose, when you find the translation of a test readily available on the Net).
While it's right to inform (in my opinion), I don't see any need to complain. Translations are judged on many criteria... and the translations offered on Kudoz are not that great, so I doubt they give a competitive advantage. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Cetacea
Switzerland
Local time: 00:19
English to German
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| It's not about ethics or fairness | May 15, 2012 |
It's about ability. If you need help to pass a test, you're clearly not able to do the job.
As Tomás Cano Binder put it:
When outsourcers hire us, they expect us to be people who know what's to be done, most especially when they have selected us for a test based on what we said we know.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:19
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
It's not ethical, but it's allowed, obviously.
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| It's either cheating or being irresponsible | May 15, 2012 |
Thomas Pfann wrote:
Yes, of course. And I think we can actually all agree on this one. All I'm saying is that no one can claim to know everything - not even everything in their particular field of expertise.
I know, but there are sufficient sources of information readily available today not to have to ask your colleagues, most especially in a translation test. Any translation professional who works in a particular field usually knows where to find the right information without having to rely on other people's expertise (or lack of).
If someone receives a translation test and has to use Kudoz... clearly the person is either A) cheating because the CV did not reflect the truth or B) acting irresponsibly for not telling the customer that they chose a wrong test, outside of the fields of expertise stated in the CV.
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 00:19
German to English
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| A certain amount of rubbish here! | May 15, 2012 |
I am a highly experienced translator in the field of law, especially patents and trademarks. Nevertheless there are terms that I encounter that I do not know how best to translate Should I give up simply because I need to ask my colleagues on ProZ, which I occasionally do? No one can be perfect in their field. No translation test has ever been given that is selected because it only uses standard terminology from the field.
I see no difference between a test and an ordinary translat... See more I am a highly experienced translator in the field of law, especially patents and trademarks. Nevertheless there are terms that I encounter that I do not know how best to translate Should I give up simply because I need to ask my colleagues on ProZ, which I occasionally do? No one can be perfect in their field. No translation test has ever been given that is selected because it only uses standard terminology from the field.
I see no difference between a test and an ordinary translation, and I imagine that a prospective client is not interested in whether you know the exact terms that crop up in the test, but rather whether you can deliver a good test translation. And I would serioulsy doubt that someone who has no knowledge of the specialisation whatsoever will be able to make up that deficit by asking words on Kudoz
And to Tomas' last comment: if there are sufficient sources elsewhere, why bother with Kudoz at all?
[Edited at 2012-05-15 14:21 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-05-15 14:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | And yet, people try... | May 15, 2012 |
David Wright wrote:
And I would serioulsy doubt that someone who has no knowledge of the specialisation whatsoever will be able to make up that deficit by asking words on Kudoz
Well, I think that the matter of this topic is the fact that some people try to replace specialisation with a whole pile of Kudoz questions.
David Wright wrote:
And to Tomas' last comment: if there are sufficient sources elsewhere, why bother with Kudoz at all?
I think Kudoz should be a source of opinion, not a place where you have your neck saved by other people.
I profoundly dislike questions in which you clearly see that the asker did not spend a millisecond to try to find a solution. No help from me there. However, when I see that an asker made an effort to research the matter, found several possible solutions, and wants an opinion, I am glad to help if I can. So Kudoz has its uses, but is too often misused.
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