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и ещё больше
остаются в распоряжении
Jul 10, 2009 09:48
14 yrs ago
Russian term

напрашивается (вывод)

Russian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
В словаре нашла перевод этого выражения как suggests itself, но со словом "вывод" всё равно не понятно как его употреблять. Я хотела бы начать это фразой предложение:
" Напрашивается вывод, что..."
Будет ли это переведено как
The (following) conclusion suggests itself:....


Спасибо
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 It's tempting to think that...
4 +5 This begs the conclusion (that...)
4 +2 The (following) conclusion inevitably comes to mind
4 +1 the conclusion arises that
2 +3 it may be concluded that
5 A conclusion which comes to the suface suggests (a possibility/impossibility)
5 The conclusion begs...
4 The (following ) conclusion gets obvious
4 it's difficult not to conclud that..
4 One reaches the conclusion
3 We cannot but conclude the following...

Discussion

Rachel Douglas Jul 11, 2009:
Wing it! In this case, however, step 1 would be to obtain the context, whereupon it is quickly discovered that the issue was irrelevant.
Judith Hehir Jul 11, 2009:
Rachel, thank you for doing the additional research. How interesting! What's a translator to do when the authorities don't agree?
Michael Korovkin Jul 11, 2009:
Is it a case-study of dementia senile? I remember no–one who strongly influenced my life but there was the whole jolly lot of them! Yeah...
Anyway, and to conclude, just put "it should follow that" – and be done with it.
As far as "begging the conclusion" so many people seem to agree with, I would strongly advise you not to use it if only (but not solely!) because it's way over-emphatic in this case: might as well put, then, "the conclusion is glaring me in the face"!
Tatiana LK (asker) Jul 11, 2009:
Я добавлю больше контекста, возможно это как о повлияет на выбор выражения.
"Задавая себе вопрос были ли в моей жизни люди, повлиявшие на меня, я не могу вспомнить ни одного. Напрашивается вывод, что таких людей не было. Но, подумав, я бы сказала наоборот: в моей жизни было очень много людей и ещё больше событий и обстоятельств, повлиявших на меня"
Alexandra Taggart Jul 11, 2009:
Negative or positive Our understanding depends wether the subject, a noun carries positive or negative meaning. The expression "to beg something" works both ways:we invite that which is positive and we beg to go that which is negative.The fact that this term is used in constructing the negative more often, that the dictionaries mention it as incorrect-it does not beg the question about correctness of Judith's answer.
Rachel Douglas Jul 11, 2009:
Back to the beg-inning... http://www.fallacyfiles.org/begquest.html

http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxbegthe.html
Rachel Douglas Jul 11, 2009:
2Alexandra You wrote: --"This begs a conclusion (it begs to come-in a most polite manner)" -i.e. asks nicely,is pretty sensible, readable, beautiful.The trouble is that it could be "too civilized"--

That is what I was responding to.

Regarding that last statement, "the meaning of 'to beg' remains ... 'to ask'" - I think the point is: Not exactly. Sometimes it means "to evade." Or, does it? (Webster's says so.) Here's a further discussion of the matter:
http://nstockdale.blogspot.com/2005/03/begs-question.html
Alexandra Taggart Jul 11, 2009:
Sorry, Rachel, I've taken the info provided by Judith: A: You are begging the question. 2. to IVITE (following) question. (This reinterpretation of beg the question is incorrect) and I've suggested my incorrect understanding due to,probably,the latest usage of this expression.It happens very often that the incorrect wins and,having been spoken only,becomes another term in the list of the meanings.That which I want to do is to bring common sense for help:what this it/he/she/they/set of consepts/set of interfering questions may beg the difficulty to do?To come?Or to go away?"To beg" has one meaning only, the collocations wth "to beg" imply directions for your thought but the meaning of "to beg" remains the same which is "to ask".
Rachel Douglas Jul 11, 2009:
"begs' This is not a question of politeness. The expression "that begs the question..." does not share any hint of the drawing-room politeness of "I beg your pardon." It's a different idiom, different sense of "to beg."

What we're discussing is different, namely, that the usage "this begs x" is historically used where "x" is something being avoided: "begs the question" = "is an attempt to evade the question"; "begs the difficulty" = "is avoidance of a certain difficulty." Thus, "This begs the conclusion..." is (according to traditional usage, and as still recognized in dictionaries) "incorrect." But, as Judith pointed out, it is _in very widespread use_. It was the first thing that popped into my head, but I stopped myself.
Alexandra Taggart Jul 10, 2009:
Using expressions "This begs a conclusion (it begs to come- in a most polite manner)" -i.e. asks nicely,is pretty sensible, readable, beautiful.The trouble is that it could be "too civilized" ( found here on ProZ, that,due to the process of translation some "overcivilized"terms could be a complete diversion from the original) because in "напрашивается" everything is other way round:a conclusion is "banging the door in order to join the party", it "breaks into","beaks through".
Judith Hehir Jul 10, 2009:
Incorrect but widespread use This is in response to Rachel's comment re: this begs the conclusion. Acc'dg to the Free Dictionary, Rachel is correct. Note particularly #2 here: beg the question 1. to carry on a false argument where one assumes as proved the very point that is being argued, or more loosely, to evade the issue at hand. (Essentially a criticism of someone's line of argument.) Stop arguing in circles. You're begging the question. A: Why do two lines that are equidistant from one another never meet? B: Because they are parallel. A: You are begging the question. 2. to invite the (following) question. (This reinterpretation of beg the question is incorrect but is currently in widespread use.) His complaints beg the question: Didn't he cause all of his problems himself?

Proposed translations

+1
1 day 3 hrs
Selected

It's tempting to think that...

"Я добавлю больше контекста, возможно это ... повлияет на выбор выражения."

Yes, "возможно" providing the context might have some influence on how to translate this versatile phrase, since we translate concepts, not single words or phrases. But, thanks for posting it without the context; otherwise we wouldn't have had that interest discussion about begging the question.

In your paragraph the concept is expressed by a sequence of sentences. The developing idea, or stream of thought, could go something like this, in English:

"When I ask myself if there were people in my life who influenced me, I can't remember a single one. It's tempting to think that there were no such people. But, if I really reflect on it, I would have to say the opposite: a very great number of people - and an even greater number of events and circumstances - had an effect on me."
Peer comment(s):
agree Olga Cartlidge : or One would be tempted to think.
6 hrs
Thanks, Olga. The reason I avoided "one" in what I suggested, is that the writer seems to be really into saying I-I-I-myself-myself-me-me-me-myself, so "one" didn't sound like it would fit in too well.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
3 mins

The (following) conclusion inevitably comes to mind

/
Peer comment(s):
agree Mark Berelekhis
1 hr
Thank you, Mark!
agree Alexandra Taggart : Nice, but long!
10 hrs
Спасибо! Краткость не всегда сестра таланта :)
Something went wrong...
16 mins

The (following ) conclusion gets obvious

//
Something went wrong...
+1
43 mins

the conclusion arises that

...
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexandra Taggart : I've thought about it, "question arises"-may be, a bit vague about a "conclusion".
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

it's difficult not to conclud that..

...many versions; depends how emphatic or flat you want to be; context is everything here
Something went wrong...
+3
3 hrs

it may be concluded that

..
Peer comment(s):
agree Jim Tucker (X) : This is fine, and makes the others look cumbersome IMO.
8 hrs
agree Rachel Douglas : Yes, this is in the right direction, for brevity. If it's not strong enough, you could use "force" instead of the (officially incorrect) "beg." "This forces us to conclude that..." / "One is forced to conclude that..."
12 hrs
agree Dylan Edwards : This is the best "neutral" version. If a stronger phrase is needed, you could say "We cannot avoid the conclusion that ...", "The inevitable conclusion is that ..."
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

We cannot but conclude the following...

Все так сразу в Лингво спешат порыться!........))))
Something went wrong...
10 hrs

A conclusion which comes to the suface suggests (a possibility/impossibility)

"The following conclusion suggests something" without "itself", I like it as well.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2009-07-10 20:51:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for typo: "surface"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2009-07-10 21:04:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is possible to put it shorter:"a conclusion that surfaces suggests..."
Something went wrong...
+5
4 hrs

This begs the conclusion (that...)

parallels the expression "This begs the question..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2009-07-10 21:05:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

See Discussion. Borrowing from the Free Dictionary, "this invites the concusion" would be more legit. Sorry to mislead, folks.
Example sentence:

However this also begs the conclusion that Goldman Sachs have themselves used...

Reference:

http://tiny.cc/0J8F1

Peer comment(s):
agree Inga Eremeeva : лаконично, не разрушает ритма
44 mins
Idiomatic, too. Thank you, IAE.
agree Rachel Douglas : I was going to offer that, too, but old doubts reared their head. I'd say it; but, reading Webster's Unabridged (meaning #3 - evade, etc.) made me wonder if "begs" should only be used in this way with things being avoided - "the question", "difficulties".
5 hrs
Thanks, Rachel.
agree Alexandra Taggart : I'm pretty much aware of.A conclusion which comes carries inlayed doubt as well.It is acceptable from the common point of view even if the dictionaries didn't give you this variation you may be confident in using it..
6 hrs
Thanks, Alexandra. Did you read all of this (and Discussion entry)? It's actually incorrect, though commonly used.
agree natalia gavrile
20 hrs
Thank you, Natalia.
agree Olga Cartlidge : invites
1 day 5 hrs
Thank you, Olga.
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

The conclusion begs...

It is a common phrase that I just heard used last night by a speaker at a conference I attended. Also, it is the conclusion that "begs" and not something "begging" the conclusion.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Rachel Douglas : Just out of curiosity... "The conclusion begs..." - what? How would such a sentence continue, and still have the meaning of "напрашивается вывод"?
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 10 hrs

One reaches the conclusion

One reaches the conclusion that...

quite a standard phrase

or

One could reach the conclusion that (to give it a little bit of a doubt)

The present tense, though, is most widely used.

That's my bit.
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