Ardith (asker) Jan 24, 2021:

@Michael Sarni Thanks very much for your responses and help. Responding to your post regarding the case of:
Person X: "I washed all the dishes." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
This would typically be a child saying "I washed all the dishes" to report a mandatory household chore being completed, and the implied threat from the parent in responding "You'd better have" is something along the lines of "...or you'll be grounded for a week."/"..or you won't get your allowance"/"...or I'm taking your phone away" etc. The parent would only say this if the child had a history of not doing required chores or claiming they were done properly when they weren't (or if the parent is just plain mean, of course).

Michael Sarni Jan 24, 2021:

@Ardith I do not sense much in a way of a threat in at least one of your examples:
Person X: "I washed all the dishes." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
What would Person Y do to Person X if the information given is not correct?

I see a slight problem with rendering 'you'd better have' as 'попробовал бы ты'. Some conditionality present in the Russian does not fully imply an event that has already passed.

There are other ways to handle the problem (with slight variation, depending on the context). On the axis grumblihg-threat they are closer to grumbling - but the intonation is all-important:

Person X: "I washed all the dishes." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- "Ну-ка, ну-ка, поглядим!"
- "Да неужели?"
- "Что-то не верится."
- "Ну, наконец-то!"

Boris Shapiro Jan 24, 2021:

@Natalie Предлагаю сойтись на том, что аспект угрозы содержится не в самой семантике выражения, а, чаще, в интонации. "Надеюсь, ты сделал X", к примеру, в с высоким терминальным тоном тоже подразумевает власть/угрозу, а без него - нет. И в вашем случае "Да уж, надеюсь" можно произнести с угрозой (="попробовал бы ты не"), выделив "надеюсь" тем же высоким терминальным тоном. Но в общем аскер, пожалуй, прав.

Natalie Jan 24, 2021:

1) Michael, я не вникала в значение 'out', да, впрочем, и неважно, какой глагол используется в предложении - речь ведь о грамматической конструкции.

2) Борис, цитата из Лонгмановского словаря - это не то, видно же по примерам, что смысл совсем другой, сравните: "Попробовал бы ты не сказать" и "Лучше бы ты не сказал".
Посмотрите дополнительно обсуждение, например, на
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/youd-better-not-have...

3) @ Ardith: yes, right, the expression implies a threat, and it also implies that the person had an obligation to do (or not to do) something

Ardith (asker) Jan 24, 2021:

it's always an implied threat "You'd better have," said in this particular way, as a response, always implies a threat, usually directly from the speaker. When used among friends or family, the threat may just be "...or I'll be angry/upset at you." In other situations, at work, on the street, or with strangers, the threat may be more serious. It's never polite. A polite alternative is "I should hope so." which seems closer to the suggested translation "очень надеюсь, что..." as in:

X: "I finished the report." -- Y: "I should hope so." (while not encouraging, this is not so bad to say to a colleague; "you'd better have" is much more negative, offensive, and threatening)

The general expression "you had better..." is different; it does not always imply that the person speaking is himself/herself threatening the other person, and it can be much more polite.

"You'd better head to the bus stop now." -- The speaker might only be cautioning the person that they might miss the bus if they don't. No anger or annoyance at that person is implied.

"You'd better back up your files." -- The speaker may be just advising the person that it's a good practice, or cautioning them, with no threat intended.

Boris Shapiro Jan 24, 2021:

Предлагаю обратиться к словарю. You'd better have - это всего лишь had better (do something) с перестановкой вспомогательного глагола have, вызванной нежелательностью прямого соседства (ha)d с have. Итак, в Longman's Activator:

had better (do something) /həd ˌbetəʳ (ˈduː something )/ [verb phrase] especially spoken

use this to say that you think someone should do something because it would be the correct, polite, or fair thing to do:
▪ I had better phone Alan and tell him I’m going to be late.
▪ You’d better apologize to your mother for forgetting her birthday.

had better not do something
▪ We’d better not tell anyone about this just yet.

had better
▪ ‘Do you think we ought to tell Jane about the money?’ ‘Yes, I think we’d better.’

Снобы и лексикологи могут обратиться к OED, статья have п. 22(а) ('preference or comparative desirability') и статья better п. 3(c)

Michael Sarni Jan 23, 2021:

'out' № 6. 'Out' здесь - не выгнать, а "разоблачить", т.е. объявить во всеуслышание, кого-то как гея/лесбиянку.

Michael Sarni Jan 23, 2021:

Контекст рулит В зависимости от "накала" отношений выбираем нужное, по шкале брюзжание - прямая угроза.

Natalie Jan 23, 2021:

Можно придумать и другие варианты, например, как прямой синоним выражения "Очень надеюсь" - "Не сомневаюсь".
Хотя эти варианты, по-моему, какие-то вялые.

1. Person X: "I finished the report." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- Очень надеюсь.
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовали бы вы не закончить!
- Еще бы ты не закончил

2. Person X: "I left all your papers exactly as they were." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- Очень надеюсь, что это так.
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовали бы вы не оставить
- Еще бы ты не оставил

3. Person X: "I washed all the dishes." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- Очень надеюсь, что помыл
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовал бы ты не вымыть.
- Еще бы ты не вымыл

4. Person X: "I didn't touch any of your things." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- Очень надеюсь.
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовал бы ты тронуть!
- Еще бы ты тронул

5. Person X: "I didn't say a word to him." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- Очень надеюсь.
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовал бы ты сказать!
- Еще бы ты сказал

6. Person X: "I didn't out you." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- Очень надеюсь.
- Не сомневаюсь.
- Попробовал бы ты выгнать
- Еще бы ты выгнал

Michael Sarni Jan 23, 2021:

Let's compare 1. Person X: "I finished the report." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- "Очень надеюсь". - "Попробовали бы вы не закончить!"

2. Person X: "I left all your papers exactly as they were." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- "Очень надеюсь, что это так". - "Попробовали бы вы не (???)

3. Person X: "I washed all the dishes." -- Person Y: "You'd better have."
- "Очень надеюсь, что помыл" - "Попробовал бы ты не вымыть".

4. Person X: "I didn't touch any of your things." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- "Очень надеюсь". - "Попробовал бы ты тронуть!"

5. Person X: "I didn't say a word to him." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- "Очень надеюсь". - "Попробовал бы ты сказать!"

6. Person X: "I didn't out you." -- Person Y: "You'd better not have."
- "Очень надеюсь". - (???)