Apr 24 12:16
1 mo ago
36 viewers *
Spanish term

informarlas favorablemente

Spanish to English Other Education / Pedagogy Request for prior learning recognition
A report produced by the Spanish Ministry of Health on a request for recognition of prior learning (medical student). The part in question quotes from Royal Decree 589/2022 and says:

"Las solicitudes se presentarán ante la comisión de docencia del centro adjudicado que deberá
informarlas favorablemente y comunicarlas al Registro Nacional de Especialistas en Formación
para que, consultada la comisión nacional de la especialidad de la plaza adjudicada, la persona
titular de la Dirección General de Ordenación Profesional del Ministerio de Sanidad dicte la
resolución que proceda..."

I'm not sure if "informarlas favorablemente" simply means to process the request of it is means to give a positive outcome i.e. to grant the request.

Thanks

Discussion

Toni Castano 14:17:
@Catherine (and 4) This is all from me now. I truly appreciate your effort trying to repair the damage done, and no, this is not a drama, neither it is the end of the world. But it could probably mean the end of my participation in KudoZ, I am still reflecting on it, I do not know if only in this pair or in all of them. Because the question for me is: What it the purpose of offering honest, technically accurate help and sacrifying a considerable amount of effort and time (just analyze the technicality of my suggestion and all these comments), if all this struggle might be disregarded in the end.
“Dramatic”, you say… Well, it is all a matter of subjective perception. It is all relative, they say…
The system is flawed, as you say, and you are absolutely right on this. I shall try to “repair” it by writing to the site staff soon by explaining what has taken place here and suggesting corrective measures to be implemented.
But, you know, I am not optimistic, and I prefer not to explain why.
Catherine, I wish you all the best in the future. No bad feelings on my side, believe me, I hope not on yours as well.
Best of luck for you. Goodbye and my best wishes to the Down Under!
Toni Castano 14:15:
@Catherine (3) From this very moment on, and considering the existence of the terrible “peer agreement” closing system AND my silence, as I was not ready to intervene to remind you of the consequences of your ineffectiveness if you did not close the question on time, it just happened what was to be expected. The system did it for you, it closed the question automatically and awarded the points to a wrong answer.
I agree with you though that this is not the “end of the world”, the KudoZ system is just a flawed one since the introduction of the “peer agreement” closing method, since the choice of the “most helpful” answers is put in the hands of peers and askers who, sometimes, not always, do not act fairly or act without proper knowledge of the subject matter (see the 5 wrong agrees philgoddard received!). When askers do not close questions on time, the “peer agreement” system springs then into action, with a miserable, pathetic and unjust outcome like in this case. I tried to warn you by posting the right answer, but we both know what happened later. And it is your fault, Catherine, as you yourself have admitted.
Toni Castano 14:15:
@Catherine (2) Afterwards, I posted my own suggestion, with the hope of rectifying the way everything was going and fearing you might use a wrong rendering in your project.
When you received my answer, you had a convincing argumentation line to close the question then, but no, you did not do it. And this was your first error, the most serious one. Because what followed it, it is just the result of your first mistake.
Several days passed on, and I forsaw what might be happening if you did not close the question on time, which you did not do. Why? You say this was due to your not receiving the notifications from KudoZ. And I believe you. But being this the case, as it is, this is your second error, since you should have provided for a technical system that had permitted you to do a normal following of the query you had asked, but you did not do it.
Toni Castano 14:14:
@Catherine (1) Thank you for this last update, which obviously includes your closing statement to the whole issue. I understand. You might probably be as tired and bored as I am regarding this exchange of opinions, which has in the end solved nothing, just nothing, as it could be expected and I had, in fact, expected. I very well know KudoZ and the people who take part in it. I am not surprised at all by all the surrounding “factors” related to this issue, they just confirm what I have known for years.
I spoke of a series of errors on your side because this is the way I feel. Why? I shall try to explain my stance. You asked a question, a very difficult one, which was wrongly responded by philgoddard with a confidence level of “4” and no supporting references, nothing, just his opinion. This wrong, nonsensical answer received 5 agrees! I then posted the certainly useless but “politically correct” neutral comment to his wrong answer… to no avail. He did not comment anything on it. Why? If you carefully read my previous comments on this discussion area, you will certainly understand. The answer to it is pretty obvious, at least for me.
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) 06:13:
Toni, I've done what I can to help this situation but I think you're being a little dramatic.

Firstly, there was no series of errors, there was a single error, in that I did not select the answer, before it was autoselected.

I do take responsibility for that, although I suspect that the reminder email may have also gone to spam, as did some of the other notifications about your comments, or the response from the proz team. I note that not all of them go to spam, and so you might if you were being generous, consider that an error on the part of either Proz.com, or Yahoo mail.

In any case, I think I've done enough in apologising to you for preventing you from getting the points that you deserve and in contacting the Proz team to try and reverse the decision. We have the information on what the next step would be and I'd say it's in Phil's hands rather than mine, though I have no idea if he's following this chat.

Again, thank you for your contribution to my query, I apologise for the outcome and I agree that the system is flawed.
Toni Castano May 29:
@Catherine Mactaggart Thanks for your update.
Well, the situation is as clear as water, no matter how incredible the whole thing seems to me. A series of errors, mostly on your side, Catherine (by not upgrading when you should have done it), have led to this Kafkaesque situation.
The procedure to be followed to achieve a correction of this injustice is then obvious. It is all in the hands of philgoddard. I have already expressed my opinion regarding what should be done here, so the “technical” details, now known to all of us as per your last posts, are, Catherine, in your hands. It is then up to you to continue with the process, and then, in the end, philgoddard will have to decide what kind of ending he considers fair to this unbelievable (yes, “convoluted” is the word) story.
Whatever the outcome of this, in due course I shall be contacting the Proz.com site staff to suggest a rectification of the “peer agreement” system, as I wrote a couple of weeks ago.
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) May 29:
So I suppose it's now a question of asking Phil if he's happy to relinquish the points and help by submitting a support request. It seems a very convoluted process, but there it is.
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) May 29:
Actually I just checked and there had been a repsonse, which I'll copy below. The notification might have gone to my spam folder, as the same happened to your most recent discussion entry and I only just came accross it today. Response as follows:

Dear Catherine,

Thank you for contacting the ProZ.com support center.

Except in cases of abuse, ProZ.com policy is that before an answer can be ungraded, both the asker and the answerer who originally received the points must agree to ungrade that answer. If you can obtain approval from the answerer you originally selected (by asking the selected answerer to submit a support request specifying the KudoZ question to be un-graded and stating s/he agrees with this action), I will be happy to change the grade for you.

Hope this helps!

Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best regards,

Yana Dovgopol
ProZ.com Team
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) May 29:
sorry, nothing at all, aside from the initial automatic acknowledgement
Toni Castano May 24:
@Catherine Mactaggart I have to ask you again, since I did not receive any reply from you after my first inquiry. Have you meanwhile received an answer from the site staff concerning this query?
Please keep me posted.
Toni Castano May 20:
@Catherine Mactaggart Is there anything new regarding the support request?
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) May 12:
I sent in a support request yesterday but have not heard anything back just yet
Toni Castano May 10:
@Catherine Mactaggart (2) Again, Ms Mactaggart. Do please your best to repair the damage done. I know, very well I would even say, the ProZ.com site staff. They are extremely professional and very helpful. Ask them please whether it is feasible to select the right answer once the terrible “peer agreement system” has already chosen another reply, in this case a wrong one.
Whatever the outcome of this “story”, in due course I shall be contacting the ProZ.com site staff to suggest a “change” of the peer agreement system for closing KudoZ questions. As I have already written, this method is a failure in itself, it is rather damaging ProZ.com than helping it.
I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your time and, above all, for your apologies.
Toni Castano May 10:
@Catherine Mactaggart (1) Thank you for your email and your apologies, which I accept.
As for your question: Is there no way to change it at this point?
Do please ask the ProZ.com site staff by opening a so-called “support ticket”. Yes, it takes time and is an additional effort to be made, true, but it is the only way to reverse the injustice that has taken place here.
To further clarify things (just in case you may still have any doubt in this respect): This is not about points, not in my case, never, it is about decency and fairness. The two first answers are totally wrong, including of course all posted agrees in favour of the first answer, including one of a peer colleague who later posted an agree for my own answer. My answer is the right one here. But not because of the extended research I performed to justify what I was saying, no, but because it is just correct. As simple as that.
Catherine Mactaggart (asker) May 10:
Hi Toni,

i agree and i am sorry about the way this has worked out, given the amount of effort that you clearly put in to answer and add further references.

I would have selected your answer. I'm often quite busy and don't get around to actioning the automatic proz emails when they first arrive but I usually do eventually. In this case though, I don't even remember seeing them, it seems to have been closed quite quickly after my query being asked or maybe that's just an indication of how busy I've been and not realised how much time has passed.

In any case, I apologise and it's reminder to me to be more proactive about selecting the preferred response. Is there no way to change it at this point?
Toni Castano May 8:
To whom it may concern I have added a note explaining what has happened here. The explanation included reflects, with respect, my disappointment and my concern about the "peer agreement" system for closing questions. Those in charge for making the decisions on this site should reflect about what I am saying.

Proposed translations

+4
2 hrs
Selected

approve them

I think this is a better way to express it. If I understand correctly, the 'centro adjudicado' is the hospital where the student has gained a place, and which approves/accredits their previous training.
Note from asker:
Makes sense, thanks
Peer comment(s):

agree neilmac
36 mins
agree Helena Chavarria
1 hr
agree Wardys Mejia
4 hrs
agree Marie Wilson
5 hrs
agree Robert Carter
13 hrs
disagree Toni Castano : Hi Phil, please read my explanations below. No "approval" at this stage, not yet. // The system did "the job" and the "peer agreement method" awarded points to a fully wrong answer before the indifference of the asker. A regrettable outcome...
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
12 hrs

approve them

From my understanding these need to be sent to -centro adjudicado- for approval and then the centre will send them to continue the process.

Something went wrong...
+4
23 hrs

To issue a favorable report

“Informar favorablemente o desfavorablemente”, Spanish legalese. This is my explanation of its meaning, both in a general scenario, but also applicable to this particular case.
Both previous answers are wrong because the “approval” does not depend on the intermediate organ (= comisión de docencia del centro adjudicado), which “merely” issues a report, in this case endorsing (= favorablemente) a final approval of the applications (= solicitudes). But the final decision of approval (or refusal) does NOT depend, and this is the key point here, on this intermediate organ, but on the final decision body, in this case a single person, the “titular de la Dirección General de Ordenación Profesional del Ministerio de Sanidad”, who will make the final decision, i.e. either in favour or against the approval (= resolución que proceda).
So I have to strongly disagree with the previous suggestions, but also with the translation “to process the request”, because “informar favorablemente” is certainly more than a mere processing of the request, it is a “favourable report” requesting the acceptance of the applications by this final decision “body” (here a single person).
Which means that in this intermediate stage NOTHING is decided, it is just an intermediate stage prior to the final decision.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2024-04-25 12:07:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is a different context, but the meaning of “informar favorablemente” is identical. As we can see in this particular case, the “Fiscal General del Estado”, i.e. the Spanish Prosecutor General or head of the Public Prosecutor's Office, merely makes a proposal or suggestion (= hará la propuesta en tal sentido), but he does not decide anything.

https://www.fiscal.es/documents/20142/0fb9b589-828b-e0f7-5b9...
El Consejo Fiscal informa sobre la provisión de destinos vacantes convocado por orden JUS/1137/2012 en el sentido siguiente:
I.-El Consejo Fiscal acuerda por unanimidad informar favorablemente la propuesta de renovación de XXX XXX XXX como Fiscal de Sala del Tribunal Supremo. El Fiscal General del Estado hará la propuesta en tal sentido.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2024-04-26 09:42:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Catherine. To further clarify things:
The “recognition of prior learning” process encompasses several stages. It is no surprising that you are puzzled since this process is complex even for Spaniards themselves (after all we are dealing here with the intricacies of the Spanish administration, a labyrinth in itself!).
Stages of the recognition process (abridged):
1) Once the application is submitted by the interest party (= medical student), it is analyzed by the first “body” (better than “organ”), which is the “comisión de docencia del centro adjudicado”.
2) This body, the “comisión”, issues a favorable report (NO approval at this stage, the key point!, they do not have the capacity to approve or reject the submitted applications). They just issue a report to allow the continuation of the process in case of a favourable assessment. If the report were unfavourable, the process would come to an end at this early stage! Hence, a favourable report is the prerequisite for the process to be continued.
3) The application is then submitted to the “Registro Nacional de Especialistas en Formación” (cannot say much about what they do, no context available!).
4) After examination (= consulta) through the “comisión nacional de la especialidad de la plaza adjudicada”, the application is then forwarded to the final body, yes, the “decision-making body”, which is the head (= persona titular) of the “Dirección General de Ordenación Profesional del Ministerio de Sanidad”. This person has the final say in the matter and can approve (yes, finally, the approval) or reject the request for recognition.

Well, this is it :-). I hope to have contributed by means of this additional explanation to a better understanding of the whole process.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 days (2024-05-08 08:35:05 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

To whom it may concern/to my dear colleagues of ProZ.com,

What has happened in this KudoZ is the greatest disappointment I have ever experienced at KudoZ/ProZ. Truly, I have lived some others before, but none comparable to this one. A fully wrong answer, which received 5 agreements, before my own (fully right) answer was posted, was chosen “as most helpful” by the “peer agreement” system. I knew this was the likely outcome if the
asker did not close the question fairly, which she did not do in the end.
It becomes obvious that I should have posted a disagree from the very beginning, which is what the answer chosen as most helpful really deserves, but instead I just posted the “politically correct neutral” comment, which is fully useless, as we can see here in this case (the recipient just remained silent, and we all know: “Silence implies consent”).
Yes, yes, I know that ProZ reminds us all, i.e. KudoZ participants, “not to take it personally” if the right question is disregarded (and a wrong answer is chosen as most helpful instead). Yes, I know, this happens on a daily basis, true, but what has happened here goes beyond what I deem the acceptable limit of my tolerance.
All my effort to explain a very difficult context was disregarded, ignored, despite the asker´s comment “ok thank you. That does actually make more sense”. Obviously, I shall not comment anything else on what I feel regarding the asker´s approach to this query. The reason for my reservation is evident.
To my friends at the ProZ.com staff: The peer agreement system you created some years ago is a failure in itself. It simply does not work and is doing a terrible damage to a site I have very much loved and respected. And because I respected it, I need to send this warning to you: Do apply the necessary changes to reconsider the “peer agreement” method for closing questions now when there is still time to do it. It is preferable to have a question open for years or “ad infinitum” to force its closing by means of the “peer agreement” system and achieve a result like this one. This one may be an extreme example of unfairness, true, but it is necessary to bear it in mind. If you properly analyze what has happened here, you do not need to know why I am saying this.
I shall never ever take part again in any queries posted by this asker. I am considering now if I should stop participating in KudoZ at all.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 days (2024-05-08 08:39:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

A correction:
Yes, yes, I know that ProZ reminds us all, i.e. KudoZ participants, “not to take it personally” if the right ANSWER is disregarded (...)
Note from asker:
ok thank you. That does actually make more sense. I also did get a little confused with all the various actors ie "centro adujicado' vs " plaza ajudicada" etc. So you're saying that the teaching commission at the first uni or whatever can report favourably that they completed the course, or even that they believe it should be granted as prior learning, but they don't actually have the authority to do this, so it's not actually an approval as such?
sorry, first "they" should have been " the student" for clarity
Peer comment(s):

agree Oscar Felipe Núñez Alfaro : It is a great explanation and your translation in English looks very accurate. Thank you!
14 hrs
agree ormiston : Convincing
20 hrs
agree Helena Chavarria : An excellent explanation!
1 day 7 hrs
"Excellent" perhaps, but useless in the end, as you can see judging by the outcome of this KudoZ. Yes, it really hurts...
agree José Chacón : A good explanation
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
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