| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Why we should learn German, by John le Carré
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| | P.L.F. Persio 
Netherlands
Local time: 19:27
English to Italian
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| Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän | Dec 17, 2020 |
Thank you, philgoddard, for this heartfelt reminder of what a truly great writer John le Carré was, and the sheer beauty of the German language.
Is the spelling correct now? I can't feel my eyes anymore.
[Edited at 2020-12-17 14:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2020-12-17 14:21 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Despite the hype | Dec 17, 2020 |
P.L.F.Persio wrote:
Thank you, philgoddard, for this heartfelt reminder of what a truly great writer John le Carré was, and the sheer beauty of the German language.
I tried to read "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" (or whatever it's called) but after a few pages I found it horrible and flung it contemptuously across the room. John Le Carré is greatly overrated. However the television series of "Tinker, Tailor" is pretty good because it clears out all the tedious English public-school c*ap, and the turgid prose isn't there.
| | | | | Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän | Dec 17, 2020 |
P.L.F.Persio wrote:
Thank you, philgoddard, for this heartfelt reminder of what a truly great writer John le Carré was, and the sheer beauty of the German language.
I particularly liked the paragraph: “No wonder then that the most conscientious editors of my novels are not those for whom English is their first language, but the foreign translators who bring their relentless eye to the tautological phrase or factual inaccuracy – of which there are far too many. My German translator is particularly infuriating.”
I bet the misspelling of Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän wouldn’t have got past his German translator, unlike the newspaper editor..
| | | | esperantisto
Local time: 21:27
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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SITE LOCALIZER | Not all translators are equal… | Dec 17, 2020 |
Chris S wrote:
I bet the misspelling of Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän wouldn’t have got past his German translator, unlike the newspaper editor..
As we can see in this thread, it can get past some translators too
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P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 19:27
English to Italian
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| Guilty as charged | Dec 17, 2020 |
esperantisto wrote:
Chris S wrote:
I bet the misspelling of Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän wouldn’t have got past his German translator, unlike the newspaper editor..
As we can see in this thread, it can get past some translators too
I should have checked it out, my German is a bit rusty. My apologies to all the German colleagues!
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 19:27
English to Italian
+ ...
| It's all right | Dec 17, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
I tried to read "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" (or whatever it's called) but after a few pages I found it horrible and flung it contemptuously across the room. John Le Carré is greatly overrated. However the television series of "Tinker, Tailor" is pretty good because it clears out all the tedious English public-school c*ap, and the turgid prose isn't there.
I loved it, I don't mind turgid prose. Each to their own.
On the other hand, I've never been able to read Hemingway, Virginia Woolf and, recently, though I probably shouldn't mention her in the same breath, Elena Ferrante.
I've been trying to find where the BBC series is available but, apparently, you can find it only on iPlayer.
| | | | | Literary abuse of foreign languages | Dec 17, 2020 |
Robert Ludlum, another literary giant, used to infuriate me with loads of little snippets of German and other languages which were always, always, unfailingly and without exception, incorrect. I eventually decided his editors must be playing a game.
And then there's that odd literary convention where Johnny Foreigner speaks perfect English after the first couple of sentences, but always insists on adding Madame or Signor or sahib or whatever in his own language. In books in other l... See more Robert Ludlum, another literary giant, used to infuriate me with loads of little snippets of German and other languages which were always, always, unfailingly and without exception, incorrect. I eventually decided his editors must be playing a game.
And then there's that odd literary convention where Johnny Foreigner speaks perfect English after the first couple of sentences, but always insists on adding Madame or Signor or sahib or whatever in his own language. In books in other languages, do English people say things like "Bonjour, my good sir, comment ça va?"
Not to mention the countless other mistakes you always get in spy novels, such as where they go to extreme lengths to stow away across the border between Sweden and Norway - a completely open border that you've always been able to stroll across at will. Or where Stockholm is in the Netherlands, and Kiel in East Germany.
It does challenge your suspension of disbelief sometimes. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| If you have a VPN | Dec 17, 2020 |
P.L.F.Persio wrote:
I've been trying to find where the BBC series is available but, apparently, you can find it only on iPlayer.
It isn't on iPlayer either. But if you have a VPN set to United States, you can watch all episodes here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq61jstTApk
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P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 19:27
English to Italian
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| Thank you, Tom. | Dec 17, 2020 |
Great tip, Tom, thank you!
Today my spelling is all over the place.
[Edited at 2020-12-17 14:22 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| It all depends | Dec 17, 2020 |
P.L.F.Persio wrote:
Thank you, philgoddard, for this heartfelt reminder of what a truly great writer John le Carré was, and the sheer beauty of the German language.
No language is inherently beautiful or ugly. It all depends on who's speaking. Was Hitler's German beautiful?
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 19:27
English to Italian
+ ...
| I know I'm going to regret this | Dec 17, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
No language is inherently beautiful or ugly. It all depends on who's speaking. Was Hitler's German beautiful?
Tom, may I remind you of Godwin's Law? But since that ship has sailed, let me try and elaborate further, just a tiny bit, I promise.
Of course it's all relative. Hitler's German was despicable and ugly, as Mussolini's Italian, as Oswald Mosley's English, as Trump's whatever he speaks.
It's just that German is not associated with that presumed mellowness that makes Romance languages popular. Some people might think there's no beauty in it at all, but they're wrong.
This is objectively beautiful:
Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn,
Im dunkeln Laub die Goldorangen glühn,
Ein sanfter Wind vom blauen Himmel weht,
Die Myrte still und hoch der Lorbeer steht,
Kennst du es wohl?
Dahin! Dahin
Möcht’ ich mit dir, o mein Geliebter, ziehn!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Yes, you are | Dec 17, 2020 |
One of the reasons why I never mastered German was because when my German teacher spoke to us in her Hochdeutsch, I was wafted into Wunderland just at the sound of it. So I never bothered trying to learn it properly; I just loved listening to it. Still do. But not every time.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 19:27
Spanish to English
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| Gotta get a Goethe or two | Dec 17, 2020 |
Yes, Godwin has already been proved right once again, just by mentioning Him.
Guttural German, hurdy-gurdy in Scandinavia, all those African clicks, all that throaty Arabic, Chinese/Japanese toning, the shrill cries of tearful girlies outside a Ballymena boozer at chucking-out time on Friday night (eh, Tom?), and many others, well, they might not always be such a delight to the ear, but I sense more poetry in Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn ...? than in Arbeit Macht Frei,... See more Yes, Godwin has already been proved right once again, just by mentioning Him.
Guttural German, hurdy-gurdy in Scandinavia, all those African clicks, all that throaty Arabic, Chinese/Japanese toning, the shrill cries of tearful girlies outside a Ballymena boozer at chucking-out time on Friday night (eh, Tom?), and many others, well, they might not always be such a delight to the ear, but I sense more poetry in Kennst du das Land, wo die Zitronen blühn ...? than in Arbeit Macht Frei, no matter who's talking. The former has a kind of ring to it, whereas the latter has a kind of knell.
Not sure where I'm going with this. A bit disorientated and off-forum today, but thought I'd jump in blind.
[Edited at 2020-12-17 15:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Of course not ... | Dec 17, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
Was Hitler's German beautiful?
... because he was Austrian. And even Austrian German can sound lovely, if not charming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQaq0eusLFY
(The subtitle function of YouTube is available, but obviously fails for Austrian German)
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 19:27
Spanish to English
+ ...
| You need Hans ... | Dec 17, 2020 |
Great video, Matthias. I didn't understand a single word, but it was still pleasant to listen to.
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