This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Intervino: MLC
licencia IR(A)

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

elementos frásticos

English translation:

correct word order

Added to glossary by jakebcn
Dec 11, 2011 09:31
12 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

elementos frásticos

Spanish to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy Linguistics
This is refering to students who are learning a second language at school and in one part of the paper for grammar correction it puts

Orden correcto de los elementos frásticos (SVO…)

Any help would be fantastic
Proposed translations (English)
5 correct word order
4 +1 the components of a phrase
5 the constituent order of a clause

Discussion

neilmac Dec 15, 2011:
Note to asker/answerer: Please do not enter the accepted answer as a translation in the database, as it is not an accurate rendering of "elementos frásticos". TIA.
neilmac Dec 15, 2011:
Am removing my answer folks! Since it seems pretty obvious that the original author simply means "word order" and the "elementos frásticos" an unecessarily bombastic stylistic flourish....
Helena Chavarria Dec 12, 2011:
I'm sure all of us here know what we're talking about. I am also a native English speaker (who uses her married name) and I have a 5-year degree in English Philology. I'm sure that jakebcn's "paper for grammar correction" asks teachers to check whether students have put the Subject, Verb and Object is the right place. Nothing more. If other elements had been required, this would have been stated.
neilmac Dec 12, 2011:
If credentials count for anything I taught TEFL for 20 years before entering translation, hold the RSA DipTEFLA and am a native English speaker, with a degree in Russian and French. The discussion about SVO (word order or syntax) refers to certain aspects of the phrase or utterance but does not encompass all the phrasal elements. How individual trainers or commercial didactic materials choose to approach and present or describe the subject is another question entirely.
Helena Chavarria Dec 11, 2011:
@ Anahí This discussion has induced me to research the issue further :) Up until now I have been relying on my memory which, incidentally, isn't too bad in these matters as I find language and words fascinating. I have posted my answer below!
Anahí Seri Dec 11, 2011:
Now I understand... ...what you mean, Helena, but in all the books I've taught with what they mean by Word Order is what you call "Sentence building". Of course the fact that adjectives go before the noun is also about the order of words, but notice the example given is VSO
Helena Chavarria Dec 11, 2011:
Word order: The cat, black, big caught a mouse small in the attic old morning yesterday. The subject, verb, object and adverbials are in the correct place but word order in each phrase is wrong.
Sentence building: A small mouse yesterday morning caught in the old attic a big, black cat. The word order is correct in each phrase, but the phrases are in the wrong place.
My younger students love playing this game as they see how easy it is for them to make decent-length sentences with only a limited knowledge of vocabulary.
Anahí Seri Dec 11, 2011:
I don't get your point, Helena for me its Subject (the big black cat) Verb (caught) Object (a small mouse) Place (in the attic) Time (yesterday morning). I have to remind my students not to put anything between verb and object, which they often do. (The cat caught in the attic the mouse)
Anahí Seri Dec 11, 2011:
I have looked up "elementos frásticos" in google and the few hits there are are always about English language teaching, and it always says SVO (Suject verb Object)
Anahí Seri Dec 11, 2011:
word order I am quite sure this is about worder, because SVO stands for Subject Verb Object. And this is an important part of the grammar curriculum in TESOL. It's especially difficult to pick up for Spanish students.
Helena Chavarria Dec 11, 2011:
And we're not talking about word order. We're discussing where to put each phrase: the big, black cat caught a small mouse in the old attic yesterday morning. I won't bother changing the word order as I'm sure you get my point.
Helena Chavarria Dec 11, 2011:
I have been teaching English as foreign language for many years. I think that elementos frasticos (my keyboard lacks the tilde) is as uncommon as phrastic elements. We're not talking about information for students, but information for teachers. And we all know that Spanish explanations are always rather high brow, for want of a better expression.

Proposed translations

6 hrs
Selected

correct word order

As an English teacher at a Spanish secondary school, I am perfectly aware of what this is about. By the way, there are only 6 hits in google for "phrastic elements" (counting KUdoz), which suggests this is not a good choice.
Peer comment(s):
agree Karen Vincent-Jones (X)
2 hrs
It a relief to see that somebody agrees with me :-)
disagree neilmac : Word order is merely one aspect of the phrase (syntax). If they do mean simply mean "word order", then "elemento frásticos" seems a rather high-falutin' way to express it, at least to this old hack.
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks a million"
+1
22 mins

the components of a phrase

maybe clearer than the phrastic elements - which is mostly used in highly academic documents. Also, elementos often means components.
Peer comment(s):
agree neilmac : My final suggestion "phrasal elements/components", synonymous with your own.
1 day 7 hrs
Thanks, Neil!
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

the constituent order of a clause


In linguistics, word order typology refers to the study of the order of the syntactic constituents of a language, and how different languages can employ different orders. Correlations between orders found in different syntactic subdomains are also of interest. The primary word orders that are of interest are the constituent order of a clause—the relative order of subject, object, and verb; the order of modifiers (adjectives, numerals, demonstratives, possessives, and adjuncts) in a noun phrase; and the order of adverbials.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/word-order#ixzz1gGGE4A6W

It is well known that languages differ in whether or not they show noncanonical
constituent order in cases of subject focus (Contreras 1976, Vallduví
1992, Ladd 1996, Zubizarreta 1998, to cite just a few references), a phenomenon
that will be referred to henceforth as focus-related constituent order variation.
There are languages like English (SVO), where constructions with focused
subjects display canonical constituent order, with a focused subject receiving the
main pitch accent (marked by caps) in-situ, as in (1).

http://www.linguistics.ucla.edu/people/buring/locker/bur_gut...
Peer comment(s):
neutral neilmac : If so, perhaps a better choice of words in the Spanish original would have been "elementos sintácticos".
12 hrs
Word order is precisely what we're talking about. The SVO in brackets makes that quite clear.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search