| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: The copyright of your delivered translations typically lies with… Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 16:52
Member (2007)
English
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I'm surprised so many have chosen that as an answer, though I suppose it's technically possible if they haven't been paid in advance.
My understanding is that we retain copyright until we've been paid, then it gets handed over to whoever pays us. However, if that payee is an agency, and they've been paid for it before they pay us (the most common state of affairs ), then that copyright will pass directly from the trans... See more I'm surprised so many have chosen that as an answer, though I suppose it's technically possible if they haven't been paid in advance.
My understanding is that we retain copyright until we've been paid, then it gets handed over to whoever pays us. However, if that payee is an agency, and they've been paid for it before they pay us (the most common state of affairs), then that copyright will pass directly from the translator to the end client.
I daresay things might be a little different for literary translations, but isn't that the normal state of affairs for business translations? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 17:52
English to Dutch
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| It is not an invoice issue. | Oct 9, 2012 |
Antonio Contreras wrote:
Theo Bernards wrote:
and is transferred automatically upon receipt of payment. It is another way to ensure that I ultimately get paid, because the mere mention of copyright infringement is usually enough to speed up the pending payment.
Hi Theo,
what do you usually write then in your invoices? Do you mention specifically a copyright clause?
Regards,
Antonio
I always make reference to my terms & conditions in the email signature underneath every email I send; the first contact email contains a specific clause about my small print and how it applies to all my business activities (as stated in my email signature). Article 5 of my small print specifically states that the intellectual ownership on the translation is transferred to the customer upon receipt of the full payment only.
@Nikki: I am sure there are legal ramifications and despite the fact that my name sounds French and I live in France, my French is actually not that good (although it improves slowly). Could you give an ad-hoc English synopsis of what lies behind the link? I have no illusion that my clause will stand in court; but the few times that I had to hasten an agency into paying me, the mere threat of me contacting the end client (article 2 of my small print states that I am not bound by any non-disclosure principle, so it allows me to reveal myself to an end client as the actual translator who wants his money) and specifically forbidding them to use the translation unless they would take it upon themselves to pay me directly, usually caused a flurry of nasty emails and rapid payments. And that was what the objective of the threat was ☺.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 11:52
English to Spanish
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In the U.S., you sign away your copyright to your translation if it is a work for hire, according to U.S. law.
Most agreements and contracts have a work for hire clause (not just for translators, but for programmers, software developers, etc.). So, according to said contract, anything you invent or create while in the employment of a company if you are an in-house translator, in our case) or while you perform work for a translation agency or company, belongs to the hiring party.
... See more In the U.S., you sign away your copyright to your translation if it is a work for hire, according to U.S. law.
Most agreements and contracts have a work for hire clause (not just for translators, but for programmers, software developers, etc.). So, according to said contract, anything you invent or create while in the employment of a company if you are an in-house translator, in our case) or while you perform work for a translation agency or company, belongs to the hiring party.
The exceptions? If you translate and sell your own translations, and the work you do for direct (private) clients, with whom you can negotiate copyright and other rights. For example, if I write a novel in English and translate it into Italian to sell it, the copyright and translation rights remain with me. I may assign translation rights partially to, say, a publishing house in Russia (if my novel becomes that popular).
All in all, copyright law leans too much in favor of the so-called original author. Translators are authors by definition, and they have rights as well.
I don't presume to know all the copyright systems around the world; I'm just familiar with those in the U.S.
Thanks, Julian, for the thoughtful question. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Email signature | Oct 9, 2012 |
[/quote]
I always make reference to my terms & conditions in the email signature underneath every email I send; the first contact email contains a specific clause about my small print and how it applies to all my business activities (as stated in my email signature). Article 5 of my small print specifically states that the intellectual ownership on the translation is transferred to the customer upon receipt of the full payment only.
. [/quote]
Hi Theo,
... See more [/quote]
I always make reference to my terms & conditions in the email signature underneath every email I send; the first contact email contains a specific clause about my small print and how it applies to all my business activities (as stated in my email signature). Article 5 of my small print specifically states that the intellectual ownership on the translation is transferred to the customer upon receipt of the full payment only.
. [/quote]
Hi Theo,
It would be great if you can share the email signature that you use. Possibly many of us can adapt it to our needs. Thanks in advance. ☺
- Umang ▲ Collapse
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 17:52
Spanish to English
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While we are on the subject of copyright, perhaps I should mention a (Trojan) computer virus currently doing the rounds in Spain, which recently infected one of my laptops. The computer suddenly becomes blocked and the message is displayed claiming to be from Spanish Police Headquarters, saying that the user has breached one of several laws, including copyright amongst other more scabrous things (zoophilias, etc). It says that in order to avoid a large fine, the supposed miscreants can make an ... See more While we are on the subject of copyright, perhaps I should mention a (Trojan) computer virus currently doing the rounds in Spain, which recently infected one of my laptops. The computer suddenly becomes blocked and the message is displayed claiming to be from Spanish Police Headquarters, saying that the user has breached one of several laws, including copyright amongst other more scabrous things (zoophilias, etc). It says that in order to avoid a large fine, the supposed miscreants can make an immediate payment of €100 (within 72 hours), and even provides a list of places where payment cards can be obtained to do so. The only way to get rid of the virus is apparently to totally reformat the hard disk and install extra protection against it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Easier option | Oct 9, 2012 |
neilmac wrote:
While we are on the subject of copyright, perhaps I should mention a (Trojan) computer virus currently doing the rounds in Spain, which recently infected one of my laptops. The computer suddenly becomes blocked and the message is displayed claiming to be from Spanish Police Headquarters, saying that the user has breached one of several laws, including copyright amongst other more scabrous things (zoophilias, etc). It says that in order to avoid a large fine, the supposed miscreants can make an immediate payment of €100 (within 72 hours), and even provides a list of places where payment cards can be obtained to do so. The only way to get rid of the virus is apparently to totally reformat the hard disk and install extra protection against it.
We got it (Metropolitan police version) on one of our computers and I just did a system restore to a point a couple of days back. Simples.
| | | | | Thank you all for your valuable comments so far | Oct 9, 2012 |
It's getting late over here and I have to get my beauty sleep. 
Your comments have been very enlightening and useful for not only me but also most probably for other Proz translators, too.
My poll really does beg the question of where the originality of what we translate begins and where it ends. This, I'm sure, changes with the laws of the country where you live or receive work from, your wishes and se... See more It's getting late over here and I have to get my beauty sleep.
Your comments have been very enlightening and useful for not only me but also most probably for other Proz translators, too.
My poll really does beg the question of where the originality of what we translate begins and where it ends. This, I'm sure, changes with the laws of the country where you live or receive work from, your wishes and sensibilities as translators, and the very nature of what you're translating. And, fundamental thinking regarding intellectual property rights, too.
This is a fuzzy area and maybe of no consequence to some but of considerable importance to others.
So, I'm going to sign off on a totally unoriginal note, and "Boing!" "Time for bed," said Zebedee.
Am looking forward to new discussion tomorrow morning.
Good night to you all and "o-yasuminasai" from this neck of the woods. zzz ▲ Collapse
| | | | Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 17:52
English to Dutch
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| For what it is worth | Oct 9, 2012 |
Umang Dholabhai wrote:
Hi Theo,
It would be great if you can share the email signature that you use. Possibly many of us can adapt it to our needs. Thanks in advance. ☺
- Umang
Sure Umang, no problem, here it is:
"My terms and conditions (see the 'small print' on my website) apply to all my activities, in so far as these terms and conditions do not interfere or conflict with any other terms and conditions agreed to prior to any assignment. Awarding me an assignment implies acceptance of the small print mentioned above.
This email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, please refrain from reproducing or using the information contained in this email, alert me immediately and delete the email from your system. In such a case I also apologize profusely. Failure to comply with any part of this request may result in legal proceedings."
The above is then followed by my contact details which I will not print here.
I have also hyperlinked 'small print' so clicking on it leads directly to my T&C on my website, but that would be a bit overkill for this forum. Needless to say that, if I initiate the first contact for a bid via email, any client cannot in good faith claim that they were the first party to stipulate terms & conditions apply, but the phrase ..."in so far as these terms & conditions do not interfere or conflict... etc." is intended to appease translation agencies that I have worked with prior to coming up with my own procedures, i.e. I had already signed an agreement with them.
If you want to see the small print itself, feel free to visit my website.
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 17:52
Spanish to English
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| Better safe than sorry | Oct 9, 2012 |
Chris S wrote:
We got it (Metropolitan police version) on one of our computers and I just did a system restore to a point a couple of days back. Simples.
Could be, but my tech guy, who is also a cop, reckons you need to install some extra protection (patches) to prevent it recurring, so I'm doing it just in case.
| | | | | Don't care at all | Oct 9, 2012 |
This is the very least thing I care about )
| | | | Alexandranow
Romania
Local time: 18:52
Romanian to English
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Alexandranow wrote:
It depends...sometimes I sign my translation, so it is mine. other times I do not know what happens with the translated work. I think should always be our, and bear our name.
I was thinking that maybe depends on the amount being paid too. For example, you agree to translate a book and a professor give that text to colleagues and students...Or use that text for a conference, without ever mentioning my name. I think at least the name of the translator should be mentioned. I think I saw such contracts in which is mentioned the fact that the work is only of the two parties, and cannot be given to thirds.....maybe depends on how we negotiate our right.
| | | | | For those who read French and who are based in France, | Oct 9, 2012 |
the link I provided in my first post here is quite useful.
It explains that it is a complicated area of law, which is right: it is!
Copyright is part of intellectual property law. The intellectual bit comes in when there is creation. Translation is transformation from one language to another, but we are not creating the ideas. The original content is not ours. Indeed, if you look at almost any work, there will be an indication that the right to distribute, diffuse, copy, tra... See more the link I provided in my first post here is quite useful.
It explains that it is a complicated area of law, which is right: it is!
Copyright is part of intellectual property law. The intellectual bit comes in when there is creation. Translation is transformation from one language to another, but we are not creating the ideas. The original content is not ours. Indeed, if you look at almost any work, there will be an indication that the right to distribute, diffuse, copy, translate etc generally lie with the publisher. The right to translate and to sell for valuable consideration is generally not something the author has control over for example.
It is not as simple as saying "I have the copyright in my translation until it's been paid". Also rules vary from one country to the next. It is a highly complex and specialized are a of the law. I suspect that a lot of the time, we do not know who has legal title to the piece we are translating. Translations are derivatives of originals. Here you go....
http://www.translatorsbase.com/articles/42.aspx ▲ Collapse
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 11:52
English to Spanish
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| A word of thanks | Oct 9, 2012 |
Thanks, Theo Bernards! Great idea.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 11:52
English to Spanish
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| Inspired by... | Oct 9, 2012 |
Mr. Bernards in France, I composed the following for my Outlook signature. Let me know what you guys think (especially if you are familiar with US copyright law etc.):
“In the absence of a written and signed agreement indicating otherwise, awarding a translation, DTP or similar assignment to me or Wordsmeet LLC implies acceptance of my terms and conditions as indicated in my invoices or emails sent by me. I retain all intellectual rights, including translation rights, to the trans... See more Mr. Bernards in France, I composed the following for my Outlook signature. Let me know what you guys think (especially if you are familiar with US copyright law etc.):
“In the absence of a written and signed agreement indicating otherwise, awarding a translation, DTP or similar assignment to me or Wordsmeet LLC implies acceptance of my terms and conditions as indicated in my invoices or emails sent by me. I retain all intellectual rights, including translation rights, to the translation as written and delivered by me, unless it is a work for hire pursuant to current U.S. copyright laws. My payment terms are 15-30 days net by check to Wordsmeet LLC, unless agreed otherwise. Any disputes about payment issues will be resolved by mutual agreement and in good faith.”
Of course, I am covering more than just copyright issues here. I don't believe in resolving payment issues by blacklisting or badmouthing anyone, but I truly believe (and prefer) to resort to a civilized, respectful discussion with my debtor party in good faith. I have tried to practice this instead of resorting to litigation or threats, and it has worked out pretty well for me.
Thanks, guys! ▲ Collapse
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Mario Chavez wrote:
Mr. Bernards in France, I composed the following for my Outlook signature. Let me know what you guys think (especially if you are familiar with US copyright law etc.):
“In the absence of a written and signed agreement indicating otherwise, awarding a translation, DTP or similar assignment to me or Wordsmeet LLC implies acceptance of my terms and conditions as indicated in my invoices or emails sent by me. I retain all intellectual rights, including translation rights, to the translation as written and delivered by me, unless it is a work for hire pursuant to current U.S. copyright laws. My payment terms are 15-30 days net by check to Wordsmeet LLC, unless agreed otherwise. Any disputes about payment issues will be resolved by mutual agreement and in good faith.”
Of course, I am covering more than just copyright issues here. I don't believe in resolving payment issues by blacklisting or badmouthing anyone, but I truly believe (and prefer) to resort to a civilized, respectful discussion with my debtor party in good faith. I have tried to practice this instead of resorting to litigation or threats, and it has worked out pretty well for me.
Thanks, guys!
Might be helpful, might not. You can only start claiming to retain rights you actually hold in the first place. And that is not necessarily the case with translations. You may have other rights in your work, but copyright may not be one of them!
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