Bottom Feeders and False Pretenses! Thread poster: Korana Lasić
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Can we please have a designated area to make it known to other users if an agency lures us in to doing onboarding on false pretences and then come back with some pittance they are offering as a rate?
I quoted on an interpreting job, my interpreting (on site) rate is EUR 500 for 8 hours and then EUR 100 for each hour over 8 hours. So, given 9-hours-a-day days they were offering, I quoted EUR 600 per day. My travelling + accommodation is paid in advance. This is a reasonable rate but ... See more Can we please have a designated area to make it known to other users if an agency lures us in to doing onboarding on false pretences and then come back with some pittance they are offering as a rate?
I quoted on an interpreting job, my interpreting (on site) rate is EUR 500 for 8 hours and then EUR 100 for each hour over 8 hours. So, given 9-hours-a-day days they were offering, I quoted EUR 600 per day. My travelling + accommodation is paid in advance. This is a reasonable rate but considered very high in my pairs, since South Slavs are the original slaves that gave the English language both the words slave and slovenly, so people in my pairs notoriously undervalue themselves.
Still, my interpreting rate must have put across that I clearly do not care who I am competing against, my rates were very clearly not emblematic of my slave ancestry.
This morning, I get an email asking me to do an onboarding document that wants my translation and interpreting info.
I spend 1.5 hours doing that for this clueless, rude, and unprofessional PM to come back with: We can offer you USD 0.03 per word for translation. This is after I quoted in EUR (the agency is in EU) in the original email (interpreting) and I reiterated I charge in EUR in the onboarding documents.
In 6 years (part-time) 14 full-time -- out of which 5 years as a freelance language professional, I've never wrote back to such a rude and foolish offer, but this morning I have done just that. To ask what on Earth has possessed them to waste my time like this (1.5 hours of my time costs EUR 75), after I quoted a clearly reasonably high rate for interpreting. How many times must a freelancer quote in EUR before they stop pushing USD on them? And -- since they gave me some BS spiel about end clients checking my work and if I provide quality work I can improve my status with their agency -- I've added: Good luck getting quality work for EUR 0.027, you will need it!
I've pivoted to include the US market when the current European war started, and I am having my best year ever, as a freelancer. I am so busy that even after writing back with a very firm “what on Earth possessed you to waste my time like this”, I am still livid she wasted my time in such a rude and unprofessional manner, so I am pleading with the proz.com staff to designate a section where we can tell the other proz.com users about the unprofessional time wasters we never worked with for obvious reasons.
Again, this was not a potential work ad. I quoted for an actual job, she proceeded to ask me to complete the onboarding, only to offer a person who charges EUR 0.08 cents for every word and 0.12 if fuzzy match discounts are to be applied, a 0.027 cents a word rate.
This really is beyond the pale rude, unprofessional, and I would say quite foolish. Is there anything we can do to name agencies that do this? I have really had it with the leading the talent on and similar unprofessional practices?
Does this PM think I am bluffing my way through my profession, and I really would go straight from 0.12 to 0.027 a word?
The AI isn't the biggest problem in our field, it's that we are a Mötley Crüe of characters, of which many undervalue themselves, work for a pittance (whether as PMs or linguists) and then proceed to try to undervalue everyone else in the field.
Is it really fair that we must work with someone to rate them in some way? It can be a different section to BB! Can't we inform of such borderline delusional and certainly rude practices as making a clearly professional linguist go through the onboarding process, only to treat them as some sort of amateur and offer insulting rates?
Forgive me if the text is lacking, I will not be taking time to spruce it up. I've wasted too much time on this incident already.
@proz.com Please consider my suggestion, as it would improve the status of the talent and ensure that the bottom feeding agencies keep the modicum of professionalism about them.
Edit: To clarify, the onboarding document included any imaginable info regarding my interpreting as well as my translation services, including my rates for both.
[Edited at 2024-09-27 21:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 15:22
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
What about asking to confirm your rate proposal before spending time onboarding?
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Lieven Malaise wrote:
What about asking to confirm your rate proposal before spending time onboarding?
I usually do. I just took this as her considering me for the interpreting job and since my resume does mention translation as well, she just wanted all the info at one place.
She just came back to me saying she is new to the PM position. Perhaps you are right and I am overreacting.
Should have just chalked it up to: Wasting some time, every so often, is part and parcel of our job and moved on! Thanks! Perhaps I just needed to vent. She is new, perhaps she was taught she can haggle the talent down as low as she needs to. She will learn. I overreacted.
Edit: To be fair to me, I can't always repeat my rates twice, that would make me sound rude and unprofessional. I am only talking here about the agencies which do receive your rates and then proceed to onboard you, only to then mention a fraction of your rate they can offer. But I still did overreact, as these incidents are few and far between. Off to the gym to calm myself down. Especially since she seems to be new and inexperienced at her job.
[Edited at 2024-09-27 14:43 GMT]
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:22
Serbian to English
+ ...
| It looks like they wanted only | Sep 30 |
to include you in their database only so that they can use your data when bidding for contracts, to show off their "great list of in-house translators"
As for "she seems to be new and inexperienced at her job" that well may be true, but she's certainly guided by someone expert in all the dirty trick of the trade.
Some businesses simply can't understand the concept of "honest dealing". In one of the other professions I practiced, I had one character saying in a moment of... See more to include you in their database only so that they can use your data when bidding for contracts, to show off their "great list of in-house translators"
As for "she seems to be new and inexperienced at her job" that well may be true, but she's certainly guided by someone expert in all the dirty trick of the trade.
Some businesses simply can't understand the concept of "honest dealing". In one of the other professions I practiced, I had one character saying in a moment of unguarded honesty "look at that, we didn't scr*w this client and he came back to us for repeat business", with the tone of someone genuinely surprised! No connection with any translation agency, perish the thought ...
[Edited at 2024-09-30 20:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Daryo wrote:
to include you in their database only so that they can use your data when bidding for contracts, to show off their “great list of in-house translators”
As for “she seems to be new and inexperienced at her job” that well may be true, but she's certainly guided by someone expert in all the dirty trick of the trade.
Some businesses simply can't understand the concept of “honest dealing”. In one of the other professions I practiced, I had one character saying in a moment of unguarded honesty look at that, we didn't scr*w this client and he came back to us for repeat business”, with the tone of someone genuinely surprised! No connection with any translation agency, perish the thought ...
[Edited at 2024-09-30 20:45 GMT] Dishonest and very annoying. Unfortunately, they've my resume, diploma, and all info now. They got me this time!
To her apology and added insult to injury of, “perhaps we can still work on projects for which will have a budged that will allow your rates”. I wished her the best in her business endeavours and asked her never to contact me again.
I did say in my previous email that I will tell every interpreter and translator I know how they lead people on even after they are informed of the rates, which, most probably, is the only reason she apologised in the first place.
I still think that a section of the forum dedicated to naming poor or deceptive onboarding practices is a good idea. Again, I'm not talking about putting in quotes for jobs that clearly state “potential”. I quoted on an actual job that takes place 14-16 October and then was asked to complete the onboarding. Never was I told that they aren't even considering me for the interpretation job, but translation collaboration, and never was I asked my rates for translation, so I just assumed I was being shortlisted for the interpreting job.
So, I think you are right. They might well be showing end clients resumes of experienced translators and hiring students, since I've no idea who else would work for EUR 0.027.
Oh well, can't win them all. I just need to be even more careful with new agencies. But if you could believe me it has happened to me that I stated my rates in the initial reply, was asked to complete onboarding, and then they come back with some BS along the lines of “at this moment we can offer you*name any insulting rate*”. This doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
As if some agencies think I'm actually bluffing in my initial emails and once I do complete onboarding, I will confess to my actual rates, which are: “They send me a turnip and this Baldrick in a dress does the work all too happy with my turnip”.
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