| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Just graduated from university....what next? Thread poster: Adam Hardie
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avsie (X) 
Local time: 09:33
English to French
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| My jaw dropped | Jul 27, 2007 |
mediamatrix wrote:
Andrew Levine wrote:
... Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand ... they are getting a good work ethic.
Where on Earth did you get the idea that undercutting experienced translators' tariffs is 'good work ethics'?
MediaMatrix
I asked myself the same question...
| | | | | Undercutting is NOT a good idea | Jul 27, 2007 |
There have been many discussions on this subject here in Proz, so I recommend you have a look round to see why I say this. But here's a few thoughts:
1) Do you want to be be a quality translator working with decent agencies for good rates or the one earning a pittance for cowboys at the bottom end?
2) it's generally much easier to negotiate a high rate with a new client than to negotiate a rate rise with an existing client.
3) Don't assume that offering a l... See more There have been many discussions on this subject here in Proz, so I recommend you have a look round to see why I say this. But here's a few thoughts:
1) Do you want to be be a quality translator working with decent agencies for good rates or the one earning a pittance for cowboys at the bottom end?
2) it's generally much easier to negotiate a high rate with a new client than to negotiate a rate rise with an existing client.
3) Don't assume that offering a lower rate will necessarily make you more attractive to agencies. Most of the translators on this site who are consistently busy and having to turn work away will tell you their rates are on the high side for their language pair, not on the low side. You'll gain repeat business by respecting the deadline and turning in a good translation, not because you're the cheapest guy around. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrew Levine
United States
Local time: 03:33
Member (2007)
French to English
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Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
There have been many discussions on this subject here in Proz, so I recommend you have a look round to see why I say this. But here's a few thoughts:
1) Do you want to be be a quality translator working with decent agencies for good rates or the one earning a pittance for cowboys at the bottom end?
2) it's generally much easier to negotiate a high rate with a new client than to negotiate a rate rise with an existing client.
3) Don't assume that offering a lower rate will necessarily make you more attractive to agencies. Most of the translators on this site who are consistently busy and having to turn work away will tell you their rates are on the high side for their language pair, not on the low side. You'll gain repeat business by respecting the deadline and turning in a good translation, not because you're the cheapest guy around.
Thanks for the points, Marie-Hélène. I know that reliability is more important to getting repeat customers than price (after all, I owned an e-commerce business for a few years) and to that end I have never turned in a translation late, or one which received complaints about quality. Good business sense dictates that a low rate will only get you so far, and that in the long term it's being reliable that matters; nonetheless, having low rates as a "hook" is a good way to draw them in the first time.
At the same time, I don't see why more experienced translators shouldn't earn more for first-time jobs with an agency. This is what I was taught at college -- not in my translation classes, but in my economics classes!
Mediametrix wrote:
Where on Earth did you get the idea that undercutting experienced translators' tariffs is 'good work ethics'?
Mediametrix, you seem to have misread what I wrote. I was saying that the rate charged has no bearing on whether or not one has a good work ethic (in the Max Weber sense of the term, not "ethics" meaning right and wrong).
[Edited at 2007-07-27 16:32]
| | | | mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 05:33
Spanish to English
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| Sorry, Andrew, but ... | Jul 27, 2007 |
... there's no way this:
Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
can be interpreted like this:
I was saying that the rate charged has no bearing on whether one has a good work ethic or not.
And I note that I was not the only one here to find your recommendation about undercutting both professionally unethical and ill-advised as a commercial practice, for inexperienced newbies and seasoned professionals alike.
MediaMatrix
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| not a good advice | Jul 30, 2007 |
Advertise low rates. I don't know what rates are like for Slavonic languages but they are probably a little higher than for French->English (my pair). Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
sorry to say but this is not a prudent advice.
Do not destroy the market...
In 2-3 years it wil... See more Advertise low rates. I don't know what rates are like for Slavonic languages but they are probably a little higher than for French->English (my pair). Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
sorry to say but this is not a prudent advice.
Do not destroy the market...
In 2-3 years it will take much bigger effort to restore it to the level wherefrom the glorious march for winning new clients started.
Do not forget, a new generation will come to undercut you.....
++
let's call a spade a spade - it's nothing but an ordinary dumping..
and one of the definitions of dumping:
dumping - The practice of selling goods in foreign markets at prices below the cost of production, usually with the aim of driving competitors out of the market.
[Edited at 2007-07-30 19:34]
[Edited at 2007-07-30 20:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | something has been wrongly understood here | Jul 30, 2007 |
I don't see why more experienced translators shouldn't earn more for first-time jobs with an agency. This is what I was taught at college -- not in my translation classes, but in my economics classes!
The main point is that it is not a translator what agency pays for.
Agency pays for a translation.
Respectively it is a fact of economical stupidity - charging less and getting less than other players get for the same quality translation on the same market.
<... See more I don't see why more experienced translators shouldn't earn more for first-time jobs with an agency. This is what I was taught at college -- not in my translation classes, but in my economics classes!
The main point is that it is not a translator what agency pays for.
Agency pays for a translation.
Respectively it is a fact of economical stupidity - charging less and getting less than other players get for the same quality translation on the same market.
Unless we are not speaking about special cases, see my previous post. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 05:33
English to Spanish
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| STRONGLY disagree | Jul 30, 2007 |
Andrew Levine wrote:
Advertise low rates. I don't know what rates are like for Slavonic languages but they are probably a little higher than for French->English (my pair). Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
As Sergei pointed out, there's a very simple term for this practise: dumping.
Now, as business practise, it shows extreme short-sightedness for 2 reasons:
- Marie Helene pointed out the first one: it is much, much easier to negotiate decent, professional rates form the start than raise the established rates after some time.
- The second reason (closely linked to the first one) is that clients who pick newcomers to the business based on their low rates are interested exactly on that: low rates. This means that there is a BIG chance that:
a) after you gain 3 yrs. experience and thus decide you should raise your rates, your clients will move on to another newcomer willing to work for the rates they used to pay you.
b) even if you decide to keep your rates, you will be constantly at risk because others may undercut YOU, which is a quite feasible scenario, given that that is how you got your clients in the first place.
Dumping the market is a HUGE NO!!
[Edited at 2007-07-30 22:46]
| | | | | "Professionally correct?" | Jul 30, 2007 |
2. Advertise low rates. I don't know what rates are like for Slavonic languages but they are probably a little higher than for French->English (my pair). Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
For goodness sake! This comment is absolutely unprofessional, the worst piece of advice a translator may provide. This is not at all the way to get jobs. If so, we go on diminishing our profession, which is, at times, quite disregarded.
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mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 05:33
Spanish to English
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| For Andrew (again...), | Jul 30, 2007 |
Andrew originally wrote what I quoted in my 27 July post:
I was saying that the rate charged has no bearing on whether one has a good work ethic or not.
Andrew then edited that comment to read thus:
I was saying that the rate charged has no bearing on whether or not one has a good work ethic (in the Max Weber sense of the term, not "ethics" meaning right and wrong).
Even if you edit your unwarranted comments in an ill-disguised attempt to minimize damage caused by your preposterous promotion of undercutting - and even if I had a an idea who this Max Weber fellow is, or a vague interest in any theories he may propound in the field of ethic(s) - I maintain that undercutting prices practiced in this profession (or any other profession, come to that) is totally unacceptable and must be stamped out.
If you don't - or won't - accept that you are misguided on this point, and if you continue misleading newcomers to the profession by suggesting that undercutting is 'okay', then I predict that your own presence in the translation business will be short-lived. Why? - because one the most important qualities required of a translator is that they shall learn from their mistakes - and not blindly propagate them and contaminate the universe with them.
Let's just hope the first person that Adam manages to undercut is Andrew...
Dixit MediaMatrix
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 05:33
English to Spanish
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| Against everything many of us have been fighting for | Jul 31, 2007 |
Sergei Tumanov wrote:
Advertise low rates. I don't know what rates are like for Slavonic languages but they are probably a little higher than for French->English (my pair). Check what other freelancers in your pairs are charging, then undercut them. Agencies will understand that they are getting a discount for someone with less experience but a lot of dedication and good work ethic.
sorry to say but this is not a prudent advice.
I agree!
Do not destroy the market...
In 2-3 years it will take much bigger effort to restore it to the level wherefrom the glorious march for winning new clients started.
Do not forget, a new generation will come to undercut you.....
We need to work together to put rates up, that is the attitude the profession needs.
it's nothing but an ordinary dumping..
Dumping. That's the word.
| | | | Cristina Santos
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:33
English to Portuguese
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Gabriela Mejías wrote:
For goodness sake! This comment is absolutely unprofessional, the worst piece of advice a translator may provide. This is not at all the way to get jobs. If so, we go on diminishing our profession, which is, at times, quite disregarded.
Andrea Riffo wrote:
Dumping the market is a HUGE NO!!
I couldn't agree more!!
| | | | Kootvela (X)
Local time: 10:33
Lithuanian to English
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| Low rates= bad performance | Aug 6, 2007 |
I don't know how about where you are but here if you charge low rates (for translating, teaching, consultation) some people can think you charge what you think youd eserve and that your work quality is low. Higher prices give them a kind of assurance.
My two cents.
Ele
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