| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Freelancer in UK invoicing Spain - VAT registration! Thread poster: Michael Boone
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Michael Boone 
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
Hi, I am a Sp-En freelancer living in an paying taxes in the UK. One of my customers in Madrid is telling me that they will not pay my invoices without a VAT number. I have not had this problem before. They seem unwilling to back down on this or to resolve the situation any other way. I do not want to register for VAT here in the UK. Has anyone come across this problem before?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:52
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Michael Boone wrote:
Hi, I am a Sp-En freelancer living in an paying taxes in the UK. One of my customers in Madrid is telling me that they will not pay my invoices without a VAT number. I have not had this problem before. They seem unwilling to back down on this or to resolve the situation any other way. I do not want to register for VAT here in the UK. Has anyone come across this problem before?
This comes up all the time, and it's always Spain. They can't force you to run your business their way. As a UK taxpayer you are answerable ONLY to the UK tax authorities and nobody else. I think it's all down to ill-informed Spanish accountants. Personally I've worked for various clients in Spain and this has never been a problem.
PS there are numerous threads on this subject.
[Edited at 2020-10-06 13:15 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
If all they want's a number, give them the number YP-08361-RL/450, for example, and worry about it later.
The only other alternative is to get in touch with the people in charge of such matters over there, but good luck figuring out who they might be in Madrid nowadays.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:52
Member (2008)
Italian to English
There are 296 pages of forums discussing these matters, beginning in 2001 and continuing up to just last week.
https://tinyurl.com/yydr5sak
[Edited at 2020-10-06 15:07 GMT]
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:52
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Don't take that seriously | Oct 6, 2020 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
If all they want's a number, give them the number YP-08361-RL/450, for example, and worry about it later.
Don't take that seriously. It would be illegal.
| | | | | VAT number without registering for VAT | Oct 6, 2020 |
I don't know how it is in the UK but here in Germany I got a VAT number even though I opted out of VAT. The number is just used for identification purposes, it does not mean you need to process VAT. Ask your tax authority.
| | | | Thomas Pfann
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:52
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
| UTR (to shut them up)? | Oct 6, 2020 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
If all they want's a number, give them the number YP-08361-RL/450, for example, and worry about it later.
I have also, once, given a Spanish client my Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) which they were happy with. But making a number up should work just as well – after all, they don't need a number, they just want one.
| | | | Nuno Rosalino
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:52
Member (2012)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Chaotic Iberian Accountants | Oct 6, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
This comes up all the time, and it's always Spain.
I think it must be a requirement when they fill out their forms - the Portuguese Recibo Verde, for example, requires you to provide a TIN of some sort. If you're working for individuals from other countries, where this requirement might seem fishy (to say the least), you're somewhat forced to use a dummy number. It's a mess and a half.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
Well, Tom doesn't like my suggestion, but he told us on another thread recently that the Inland Revenue sometimes does home visits, so why not ring up the taxman and ask him to pop in for a cuppa, and he can give you the lowdown on these Johnny Foreigners. You could offer him some digestive biscuits too, because tea's always so wet without them, isn't it, but on no account should you attempt to up the ante with Bourbons or Jammy Dodgers, and certainly not Battenberg cake, because it could be con... See more Well, Tom doesn't like my suggestion, but he told us on another thread recently that the Inland Revenue sometimes does home visits, so why not ring up the taxman and ask him to pop in for a cuppa, and he can give you the lowdown on these Johnny Foreigners. You could offer him some digestive biscuits too, because tea's always so wet without them, isn't it, but on no account should you attempt to up the ante with Bourbons or Jammy Dodgers, and certainly not Battenberg cake, because it could be construed as bribery. And bribery of a public official is illegal.
[Edited at 2020-10-06 17:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Well, Tom doesn't like my suggestion, but he told us on another thread recently that the Inland Revenue sometimes does home visits, so why not ring up the taxman and ask him to pop in for a cuppa, and he can give you the lowdown on these Johnny Foreigners. You could offer him some digestive biscuits too, because tea's always so wet without them, isn't it, but on no account should you attempt to up the ante with Bourbons or Jammy Dodgers, and certainly not Battenberg cake, because it could be construed as bribery. And bribery of a public official is illegal.
Encouraging translators to provide fake tax numbers seems rather dodgy and takes the biscuit in my opinion. That's hard to digest.
On a more serious note, a Spanish client of mine states the following in their instructions:
'Since the intra-commentary law came into effect on 1st January 2010, the Tax Authority requires that the linguists operate with an Intra-communitarian VAT number, validated for all the intra-communitarian operations, and that if you are exempt from this duty, we need you to send us an official document, issued by the competent authorities indicate your exemption.' [sic]
It seems rather silly, as the VAT liability will, in any case, be in Spain, but I guess there's no way to cure this taxing Spanish plague.
That should be a piece of cake and shouldn't involve hectoring the tax inspector or anyone else.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
I think we're focusing too much on the acronym "VAT" here. In Spain I have to put, on each invoice, my address and my tax identification number, NIF, and the customer's address and tax identification number, which can be a NIF if they're an individual like me, and a CIF if they're a legal entity.
In the UK, don't people operating their own business, translators or others, have any kind of tax number? So how does the Inland Revenue list you? Just by your name and surname?
... See more I think we're focusing too much on the acronym "VAT" here. In Spain I have to put, on each invoice, my address and my tax identification number, NIF, and the customer's address and tax identification number, which can be a NIF if they're an individual like me, and a CIF if they're a legal entity.
In the UK, don't people operating their own business, translators or others, have any kind of tax number? So how does the Inland Revenue list you? Just by your name and surname?
My NIF, however, is multifunctional, since the same number is on my Spanish identity card, and also on my Spanish driving licence. So this might be because you have no ID card in the UK, and so no useful number to use. Because you still don't have an ID card up there, do you?
[Edited at 2020-10-06 17:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Tax-wise, I think the UK belongs in Southern Europe | Oct 6, 2020 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
In the UK, don't people operating their own business, translators or others, have any kind of tax number? So how does the Inland Revenue list you? Just by your name and surname?
Yes and no. They give you various reference numbers for various purposes and you do have a National Insurance number which probably underpins it all. But you’re never going to remember any of them, so name and postcode still rule the roost. Trouble is, the taxman’s card index is full and his Pentium 386 is getting slow to respond now he’s upgraded to XP, so he generally jots it all down on the back of an envelope and then forgets where he left it.
I actually trade as a limited company (because I’m cool), which has both a company registration number and a VAT number, neither of which are used by the Revenue, which instead assigns me an impossibly long reference number for PAYE and an even longer one for corporation tax, which changes every quarter. Not to mention the reference number for business rates which we are billed but don’t have to pay.
PS This isn’t the 1980s, so I think the taxman might be insulted if you offered up Bourbons and Battenberg. Chocolate Hobnobs probably strike the right balance these days. But Viscounts are still out of the question.
PPS Back on topic (sorry OP!), I don’t think you can go far wrong quoting your NI number.
PPPS Whatever happened to Garibaldis? Are squashed flies too much of a health risk these days?
[Edited at 2020-10-06 18:24 GMT]
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
Upgraded to XP!! How long ago was that?
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 18:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Driving licence | Oct 6, 2020 |
Which I mentioned earlier. Use that number? All they want is a number.
As Tom (and indeed Michael, I see) are well aware, the Northern Ireland driving licence not only has a number, but also a photo. Which might not seem strange, because my Spanish licence also has a photo, but I freaked out when I went to study in England all those years ago, and found that the English licences were just a green sheet of paper, with a number but no photo.
This was, of course, a sneaky... See more Which I mentioned earlier. Use that number? All they want is a number.
As Tom (and indeed Michael, I see) are well aware, the Northern Ireland driving licence not only has a number, but also a photo. Which might not seem strange, because my Spanish licence also has a photo, but I freaked out when I went to study in England all those years ago, and found that the English licences were just a green sheet of paper, with a number but no photo.
This was, of course, a sneaky way of creating an unofficial ID card for the untrustworthy people of Northern Ireland in turbulent times, and them only, as part of a country, the UK, which never introduced ID cards as a matter of principle, personal freedom and what have you.
When the RUC wanted to ID you, you could show them your driving licence. No licence on you, sir? (there was no obligation to carry it, especially if you weren't driving at the time) - Present it at the police station within 3 days. No driving licence, sir? (nobody has the obligation to drive, after all) - Present your passport at the police station within 3 days. No passport, sir? (no obligation to have one, after all) - and there, presumably, it stopped. They couldn't actually identify you if you reached the end of the chain.
How do you ID yourself to the police in England these days? Does the driving licence finally have a photo now? But even if it does, all the aforementioned Northern Ireland criteria still apply, and if you don't have an ID card, then you don't have ID. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's an ill wind... | Oct 6, 2020 |
I have also avoided invoicing people in the UK who do not have VAT numbers - usually by not working for them - because the Danish tax authorities dislike them and cause a lot of hassle too.
I will not discuss Brexit here, because the Moderators could have a field day removing my comments, but if there is one good thing that comes out of it, it is or will be the end of all this discussion.
After December 31, the UK will be a ´third country´, and you will not need a VAT numbe... See more I have also avoided invoicing people in the UK who do not have VAT numbers - usually by not working for them - because the Danish tax authorities dislike them and cause a lot of hassle too.
I will not discuss Brexit here, because the Moderators could have a field day removing my comments, but if there is one good thing that comes out of it, it is or will be the end of all this discussion.
After December 31, the UK will be a ´third country´, and you will not need a VAT number. I regularly invoice Norwegian clients, who are not in the EU without mentioning VAT, and the tax authorities have to accept it. Likewise clients anywhere else in the world outside the EU.
You probably cannot wait until after December 31 with this invoice, but try saying that the UK has left the EU and is now a third country.
(What other hassle it will cause if the UK drops out without an agreement may be another story, but let´s hope for the best!) ▲ Collapse
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