| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | We need a whole new paradigm Thread poster: Daniel Frisano
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Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 02:18
French to English
| changing the language used | Dec 30, 2017 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
This long discussion on "have a nice day" serves to highlight our role in society as translators: converting a message - thoughts expressed in writing - from one culture to another, which INCLUDES changing the language used.
Just translating some NY messages for a client, one translated into "we hope that the NY will bring you peace and love"
It sounded fine in French, but I pointed out to the client that it sounded rather like they wanted to be transported back to the late Sixties in English and suggested that they simply repeat one of the other messages instead (they'd more or less covered all other possible good things you might wish for in the rest of the text). I also said that I was available should they decide to reword it. They just thanked me and didn't tell me what they had decided, but I consider that I did my job there.
| | | | | I wonder how people would react to the on/off-topic police in real life? | Dec 30, 2017 |
Looks like I missed all the fun over Christmas.
On topic:
Do we need a new paradigm? I already work in this dream world...
Just don't work with agencies!
Off topic:
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... that's naughty-naughtiness, Nikolaki, but thanks for bashing it out anyway.
I look forward to reading "The Little Translator and How the Trouser Snake Lost an Eye".
Have a nice day everyone - and a Merry New Year!
| | | | James McVay
United States
Local time: 20:18
Russian to English
+ ...
"Have a nice day" is a really annoying, presumptuous, arrogant, and now very dated American expression. What do I suggest instead?
"Goodbye".
It may be all that and clichéd and pro forma to boot, but someone on a service desk wished me a nice day just this morning. I didn't take offense, just said, “bye” and disconnected.
[Edited at 2017-12-30 23:38 GMT]
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 02:18
French to English
| another suggestion | Dec 31, 2017 |
James McVay wrote:
"Have a nice day" is a really annoying, presumptuous, arrogant, and now very dated American expression. What do I suggest instead?
"Goodbye".
It may be all that and clichéd and pro forma to boot, but someone on a service desk wished me a nice day just this morning. I didn't take offense, just said, “bye” and disconnected. [Edited at 2017-12-30 23:38 GMT]
why not "thank you, you too, good-bye"?
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| You mean, you have a sense of perspective | Dec 31, 2017 |
James McVay wrote:
It may be all that and clichéd and pro forma to boot, but someone on a service desk wished me a nice day just this morning. I didn't take offense, just said, “bye” and disconnected.
What, you mean you didn't work yourself into a paroxysm of hysterical, vituperative rage when somebody used a few simple, well-intentioned words to close an interaction? Hmm. Well, I can only conclude that you are a mature individual with a sense of perspective and a modicum of emotional self-control. Would that everybody on this thread were the same.
Dan
| | | | Markus Nystrom
United States
Local time: 19:18
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Freedom of association | Dec 31, 2017 |
Tom in London wrote:
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... "Have a great day"? Or "Have yourself a cracker of a day"?
It's more the "nice" in "Have a nice day" that bothers me. Nice is certainly overused. It seems people can't think of anything better to say: We had a nice time. He's a nice man. It's a nice day. Oh, that's so nice of you ..... etc.
In other words, I reckon nice isn't very nice.
The exhortation (by some Americans but, fortunately, not all) to "have a nice day" is a gross violation of the other person's privacy. In Italian it would be the equivalent of something like "permettersi confidenza": impertinently pushing oneself into the confidence of another person and presuming to influence the remainder of the other person's day. That's why it is intolerable.
If anyone ever says "have a nice day", the best response (suggested to me by an American) is "thank you, but I have other plans". [Edited at 2017-12-28 09:27 GMT]
It's not as if you've been abducted, strapped down and forced to endure locutions spoken by disingenuous ruffians for the express purpose of hurting your delicate sensibilities and chafing your ears. If you don't like the way Americans speak, then don't do business with us. That's up to you. Do you think we like your supercilious whining? And by all means, have anything but a nice day.
| | | | | Clichés, conventions, etc. | Dec 31, 2017 |
Why such a fuss about the cliché "have a nice day"?
It's just a meaningless and now fairly ubiquitous convention when ending a conversation, email, etc. I don't use it myself but is it any more annoying or meaningless than "kind regards" or even "yours sincerely"? And what about starting the correspondence with "dear"? Is this person who I actually don't know dear to me? Am I sincerely theirs?
| | | | Rachel Steer
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:18
French to English
+ ...
| CAT tool requirements need to go | Dec 31, 2017 |
I totally agree with the OP about demands to use a certain type of CAT tool. Especially here on Proz and in my language pairs, a very large proportion of the jobs that get posted require you to use Trados. There are numerous problems with this.
I am a new translator, and while I'm managing to find work elsewhere, it really limits the work you can get on here when you're required to pay hundreds of pounds just to have the "right" program to work with, especially when you're just begi... See more I totally agree with the OP about demands to use a certain type of CAT tool. Especially here on Proz and in my language pairs, a very large proportion of the jobs that get posted require you to use Trados. There are numerous problems with this.
I am a new translator, and while I'm managing to find work elsewhere, it really limits the work you can get on here when you're required to pay hundreds of pounds just to have the "right" program to work with, especially when you're just beginning as a translator and can't even afford it. I don't see why someone should have to use Trados, or what difference it could possibly make to the client (unless it's a project with multiple translators) if we use that, OmegaT, Microsoft Word, or even Notepad.
I also agree with testing being nonsensical, or specifying that we can't use Google Translate. The idea that paid professionals would actually attempt to simply Google Translate their work and expect to be paid is preposterous. If someone does bad work, the right approach is to use reviews and feedback to let others know about them.
As for being called a "freelancer", I have no problem with this. It's a useful term to distinguish between those who work for a company and those who are self-employed. ▲ Collapse
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| IMO the #1 paradigm shift priority | Dec 31, 2017 |
RachelSteer wrote:
[/b]CAT tool requirements need to go[b]
I totally agree with the OP about demands to use a certain type of CAT tool. Especially here on Proz and in my language pairs, a very large proportion of the jobs that get posted require you to use Trados. There are numerous problems with this.
I am a new translator, and while I'm managing to find work elsewhere, it really limits the work you can get on here when you're required to pay hundreds of pounds just to have the "right" program to work with, especially when you're just beginning as a translator and can't even afford it. I don't see why someone should have to use Trados, or what difference it could possibly make to the client (unless it's a project with multiple translators) if we use that, OmegaT, Microsoft Word, or even Notepad.
I couldn't agree more!
You are a new translator, and use OmegaT.
I have been translating professionally since 1973, and I use WordFast.
Why do 96% of the jobs publicly posted on Proz are set in a way to peremptorily exclude non-Trados users?
Why does such demand is seldom made for ANY other of the many CAT tools in the market?
Is there a covert, blatantly unfair market practice being adopted here?
Just try to imagine if 96% of the Uber requests demanded absolutely a Toyota, no other car brand being acceptable?
The very fact of demanding a CAT tool is ethically questionable. If the translator can deliver a high quality job done within the agreed period of time, it is up to the translator to use whatever tools s/he wants.
The way it is, a mandatory, sine qua non requirement is equivalent to "must be a Toyota, WITH power steering AND automatic transmission". The driver (= translator) is the one who will be using them! However I'd agree on requiring, say, air conditioning (= text formatting), which the passenger will enjoy. (viz. "I'm going to make a public appearance, it's very hot here, and I can't afford to let my make-up melt on the way.")
| | | | kd42
Estonia
Local time: 03:18
English to Russian
| I like platforms | Feb 18, 2018 |
3. No using clients’ platforms for job management or accounting. I have my system, I’ll send my invoices at the end of the month. Imagine having 20 clients with 20 different platforms to logon to. Would your life be easier? It is easier for me indded, when I use a platform. All my best clients (agencies) use some sort of a portal. This means that they work for me keeping track of all the jobs. At the end of the month, instead of filling another long Excel table (I have direct clients who are actively exchanging e-mails with their partners), making mistakes, forgetting to include a couple of jobs, I log in, go to invoicing, click "create invoice" and fill in the number.
In my humble opinion, these platforms, CAT tools, etc. are like elections - the results depend upon whose hands they are in. Because there is a referendum and a referendum.
| | | | | ProZ and Trados are partners | Feb 18, 2018 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
RachelSteer wrote:
[/b]CAT tool requirements need to go[b]
I totally agree with the OP about demands to use a certain type of CAT tool. Especially here on Proz and in my language pairs, a very large proportion of the jobs that get posted require you to use Trados. There are numerous problems with this.
I am a new translator, and while I'm managing to find work elsewhere, it really limits the work you can get on here when you're required to pay hundreds of pounds just to have the "right" program to work with, especially when you're just beginning as a translator and can't even afford it. I don't see why someone should have to use Trados, or what difference it could possibly make to the client (unless it's a project with multiple translators) if we use that, OmegaT, Microsoft Word, or even Notepad.
I couldn't agree more!
You are a new translator, and use OmegaT.
I have been translating professionally since 1973, and I use WordFast.
Why do 96% of the jobs publicly posted on Proz are set in a way to peremptorily exclude non-Trados users?
Why does such demand is seldom made for ANY other of the many CAT tools in the market?
Is there a covert, blatantly unfair market practice being adopted here?
Just try to imagine if 96% of the Uber requests demanded absolutely a Toyota, no other car brand being acceptable?
The very fact of demanding a CAT tool is ethically questionable. If the translator can deliver a high quality job done within the agreed period of time, it is up to the translator to use whatever tools s/he wants.
The way it is, a mandatory, sine qua non requirement is equivalent to "must be a Toyota, WITH power steering AND automatic transmission". The driver (= translator) is the one who will be using them! However I'd agree on requiring, say, air conditioning (= text formatting), which the passenger will enjoy. (viz. "I'm going to make a public appearance, it's very hot here, and I can't afford to let my make-up melt on the way.")
https://www.sdl.com/partners/sdl-trados/training-centers/list.html/list/Location/North%20America
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 19:18
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Platitude or snark? | Feb 19, 2018 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Why such a fuss about the cliché "have a nice day"?
It's just a meaningless and now fairly ubiquitous convention when ending a conversation, email, etc. I don't use it myself but is it any more annoying or meaningless than "kind regards" or even "yours sincerely"? And what about starting the correspondence with "dear"? Is this person who I actually don't know dear to me? Am I sincerely theirs?
I don't ascribe ill intent to such platitudes since they largely deployed unthinkingly, but it does come across (if unintentionally) as a bit snarky since the person knows *exactly* what I am going to be doing for the rest of the day, namely working until some ungodly hour of the night or early morn on that 5000 word translation he or she just assigned me that absolutely, positively has to be there overnight... Same for signing off with "Have a great weekend" on Friday after they've just assigned me 10000 words for Monday morning. What DO they think I'm going to be doing all weekend???
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 02:18
Spanish to English
+ ...
... you do it all on Friday evening, all 10K of it, and laugh your way through the weekend like they were simply encouraging you to do.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| What's the problem? | Feb 19, 2018 |
LEXpert wrote:
Same for signing off with "Have a great weekend" on Friday after they've just assigned me 10000 words for Monday morning. What DO they think I'm going to be doing all weekend???
You agreed to do it. If I were them I too would conclude that you are happy to take it on a lucrative job. If you're not happy to take it on, don't do it!
I work at the weekends regularly, but only because I agree to do so. The only person with the power to compel me to take on projects is myself, and the only person with the power to compel you to take on projects is yourself. We are individuals with agency, right? We accept responsibility for our own actions, right?
If you resent working weekends, then it can't be good for you mentally or emotionally, and you should consider stopping.
Dan
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 19:18
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Nobody likes working... | Feb 19, 2018 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
LEXpert wrote:
Same for signing off with "Have a great weekend" on Friday after they've just assigned me 10000 words for Monday morning. What DO they think I'm going to be doing all weekend???
You agreed to do it. If I were them I too would conclude that you are happy to take it on a lucrative job. If you're not happy to take it on, don't do it!
I work at the weekends regularly, but only because I agree to do so. The only person with the power to compel me to take on projects is myself, and the only person with the power to compel you to take on projects is yourself. We are individuals with agency, right? We accept responsibility for our own actions, right?
If you resent working weekends, then it can't be good for you mentally or emotionally, and you should consider stopping.
Dan
I "agree" to do a lot of things that are necessary in the greater scheme of things, but don't bring me any real measure of happiness - paying taxes, battling bureaucracy, going to the dentist, accumulated housework/repair projects, etc. Just because I willingly work weekends if the job is too good to pass up, or the backlog for the coming week is a little thin, or it's too huge and there's no other way to get it done on schedule, that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather be doing something else. Nobody likes work, no matter how highly paid - that's why it's called "work" and not "leisure" or "rest" or "fun", or whatever. Still doesn't mean the PM has to rub it in with their thoughtless "Have great weekend!".
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