| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | At a loss for words...
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| | Kaspars Melkis 
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:38
English to Latvian
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| The UN definition is much broader | Mar 10, 2021 |
Dan, the modern definition of racism is much broader: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
According to a United Nations convention on racial discrimination, there is no distinction between the terms "racial" and "ethnic" discrimination.
Dan Lucas wrote:
Marina Taffetani wrote:
I don't see how most Italians being Caucasian is relevant to what Tom said. He quoted this passage: "[Italian] culture is not known to be especially work-focused." As an Italian, I find this definitely racist.
That's because you don't understand the definition of "racism".
Merriam Webster:
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Oxford:
The unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race
Collins
Racism is the belief that people of some races are inferior to others, and the behaviour which is the result of this belief.
You (like many other people) are confusing bigotry and prejudice with racism, which is a specific instance of the former two that is driven by ethnicity [EDIT: specifically, the colour of one's skin, not one's nationality]. Speaking as somebody with a non-Caucasian spouse, and two children of mixed ethnicity, I believe this is an important point.
If we spray the word "racist" about when race (as opposed to nationality) is not a factor, it dilutes what should be a shocking accusation. If my children are taunted by English kids because they are from Wales, that's not racism. If they are bullied because they are half-Japanese, that is racism.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:38
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Labelling something "modern" does not make it more (or less) true.
I do not accept that either the UN or Wikipedia has the right or competence to redefine words that have been clearly defined for generations. To actively try to change the way people use language in this way is akin to newspeak. (A related example is the attempt over the past decade or so to redefine racism so that it cannot be applied to racist acts committed by non-Caucasians.)
To repeat: race is the crucial component of racism. To (attempt to) move away from that clear and coherent definition is to blur and eventually remove an important distinction. That would make life more difficult for those who are genuinely discriminated against because of the colour of their skin. Guess what? That is still a thing.
Finally, it is simply not necessary. It is not as if English lacks for words to describe people being prejudiced or judgemental for no real reason. We can criticise bigoted people who use the trope of lazy Italians or Spanish without resorting to a word that explicitly refers to skin colour.
Language matters. Precision matters. If linguists like ourselves cannot be bothered, who will?
Dan
[Edited at 2021-03-10 09:35 GMT]
| | | | Kelly Gill
Thailand
Local time: 01:38
Italian to English
| If you don't want a subscription: | Mar 10, 2021 |
Edwige Thomas wrote:
How embarrassing! I didn't see it was in the "Translation news" section. Very interesting indeed, to bad I can't read the whole article without subscription.
outline.com works pretty good for lots of articles requiring a subscription
| | | | MollyRose
United States
Local time: 12:38
English to Spanish
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The truth is, we all belong to the human race. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve, and even more recently, of Noah and his three sons since the Flood. Skin color has nothing to do with anything (except to protect from sunburn in hot climates and to allow more sun to penetrate in colder areas), much less country of origin, etc.
I wish people would stop trying to divide us and just focus on what we have in common, encouraging each other to continue what they do right and to cor... See more The truth is, we all belong to the human race. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve, and even more recently, of Noah and his three sons since the Flood. Skin color has nothing to do with anything (except to protect from sunburn in hot climates and to allow more sun to penetrate in colder areas), much less country of origin, etc.
I wish people would stop trying to divide us and just focus on what we have in common, encouraging each other to continue what they do right and to correct what they do wrong, with wisdom and as appropriate, without casting blame on external factors. Even though there is a lot of cultural influence around us and people trying to manipulate and force each other to follow their ways, each individual has the responsibility to choose what to follow or reject. It takes courage to stand up for what we believe is right when there is much opposition and threats come against us, but we still make our own choices. People may try to force their own will on others, but they cannot do it unless the others yield. Sometimes the price to resist evil is great, but being true to our own conscience can be stronger. ▲ Collapse
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| For the record | Mar 10, 2021 |
neilmac wrote:
There could be a couple of potential bones of contention in that squib. For example, I'd say that the meaning of the Swedish “tack for senast” is pretty much covered by "long time no see". And "have a good weekend" is quite a common expression among co-workers.
I suppose it's along the lines of the plethora of articles that appeared in the UK press a few years ago claiming that English was simply unable to express the Danish notion of "hygge". (eyeroll)
I know what you mean, but hygge can’t be properly conveyed in one word in English. And tack för senast actually means more like thank you for having us.
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MollyRose wrote:
The truth is, we all belong to the human race.
My thoughts exactly. There is no race, you guys. We all belong to the human race. So if we accept this, and we go by Dan's and Merriam Webster's definition, racism doesn't exist after all. Which is evidently not true, as we all know.
What I mean to say is that I don't believe in different races, just in the human race—therefore, racism is really "ethnic" discrimination, as Kaspar (and the UN) so aptly suggest.
You don't have to agree with me, it's just that I as an Italian have a really hard time when I hear talk of "races" (remember, fascist racial laws and all that).
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