| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Scammed by a 5 stars rated agency. Thread poster: María Toresani
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María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Hi everyone,
I have a huge problem, I finished a job for a translation agency a week ago, we agreed by email that once the invoice was issued, they would pay me within 07 days. I issued the invoice last Friday (10/16/2020) and I still haven't received the payment. But that is not all, also they do not answer to my emails and I spoke to them by Whatsapp demanding an urgent solution and they only answered "ok" without any other comment.
Before accepting the job I looked f... See more Hi everyone,
I have a huge problem, I finished a job for a translation agency a week ago, we agreed by email that once the invoice was issued, they would pay me within 07 days. I issued the invoice last Friday (10/16/2020) and I still haven't received the payment. But that is not all, also they do not answer to my emails and I spoke to them by Whatsapp demanding an urgent solution and they only answered "ok" without any other comment.
Before accepting the job I looked for ratings from the agency and here at Proz it has 5 stars !!! With over 30 users who rated them, that is why I took the job on the first place.
Anyone have any ideas on how to proceed? Nothing like this has ever happened to me, I am quite desperate, the amount they owe me is quite high and the agency is from a different country than mine.
I have thought of contacting the client for whom I did the translation directly because I have not signed a contract with the agency that prevents me from that. The client is from my same country (Argentina), the intermediary agency is from another (India). ▲ Collapse
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 08:14
English to Russian
+ ...
| India is a key word | Oct 24, 2020 |
Maria Toresani wrote:
the intermediary agency is from another (India).
Sorry, Maria, but that should have stopped you in your tracks. Argentina goes to India to find a translator in Argentina... WhatsApp is a reason to believe that however lousy, they may still be legit. Maybe the end client will be interested in the amount in your invoice; mention it casually. If Argentina fell for them because they ert the cheapest, I dread to imagine what they offered you unless they never intended to pay in the first place. Sorry.
When you check BlueBoard, pay attention to who leaves the review. There is never a problem in finding 30 Indian relatives and local translators routinely fed with 100000 words for .001 cents/word to collect great BB scores .
If I may ask, what was the agreed method of payment?
| | | | Adam Dickinson 
Canada
Local time: 09:14
Member (2016)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Time difference? | Oct 24, 2020 |
One thing to remember is that India is about 8 hours ahead of Argentina, so unless you sent your chaser email before 9 am your time, they may have left the office for the day. Given that you sent your invoice on Oct. 16, all we can say for sure is that they are one business day late on payment. Not ideal, but also not exactly a 'scam'. You might send another follow-up on Sunday evening, your time, and they should at least acknowledge it over the course of their business day on Monday.
... See more One thing to remember is that India is about 8 hours ahead of Argentina, so unless you sent your chaser email before 9 am your time, they may have left the office for the day. Given that you sent your invoice on Oct. 16, all we can say for sure is that they are one business day late on payment. Not ideal, but also not exactly a 'scam'. You might send another follow-up on Sunday evening, your time, and they should at least acknowledge it over the course of their business day on Monday.
Good luck!
-------- Edit - sorry, one other thing that I thought of. This weekend is Dussehra, which is a major holiday in India. Obviously, this isn't a normal year, but under regular circumstances they might not have even been working on Friday, or they might have had most of their staff taking the day off, since people often book holidays around these dates. Just another consideration.
[Edited at 2020-10-24 19:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I hope so... | Oct 24, 2020 |
Adam Dickinson wrote:
One thing to remember is that India is about 8 hours ahead of Argentina, so unless you sent your chaser email before 9 am your time, they may have left the office for the day. Given that you sent your invoice on Oct. 16, all we can say for sure is that they are one business day late on payment. Not ideal, but also not exactly a 'scam'. You might send another follow-up on Sunday evening, your time, and they should at least acknowledge it over the course of their business day on Monday.
Good luck!
-------- Edit - sorry, one other thing that I thought of. This weekend is Dussehra, which is a major holiday in India. Obviously, this isn't a normal year, but under regular circumstances they might not have even been working on Friday, or they might have had most of their staff taking the day off, since people often book holidays around these dates. Just another consideration.
[Edited at 2020-10-24 19:05 GMT]
Hi Adam,
Thanks for your reply and for taking this time to answer me. I hope you are right, I got access to TC's comment section and found out that this happened to two another fellow translators and they still didn't pay them, so I am losing hope, though I didn't know about this holiday you mentioned and really hope that's it, but as I said, I doubt it because they applied the same method to the other translators as well.
As for the time difference, yes you are right but I contacted them very politely on Friday (23rd) asking when did they think the due date was going to be and didn't get a reply at all... That's when I sent them a Whatsapp message and their only answer was "OK", again I asked very politely if they could give me a certain due date and they left me on seen. That's when I started doubting.
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María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | You are right. | Oct 24, 2020 |
IrinaN wrote:
Maria Toresani wrote:
the intermediary agency is from another (India).
Sorry, Maria, but that should have stopped you in your tracks. Argentina goes to India to find a translator in Argentina... WhatsApp is a reason to believe that however lousy, they may still be legit. Maybe the end client will be interested in the amount in your invoice; mention it casually. If Argentina fell for them because they ert the cheapest, I dread to imagine what they offered you unless they never intended to pay in the first place. Sorry.
When you check BlueBoard, pay attention to who leaves the review. There is never a problem in finding 30 Indian relatives and local translators routinely fed with 100000 words for .001 cents/word to collect great BB scores .
If I may ask, what was the agreed method of payment?
Hi Irina,
Thanks for answering me, it's very kind from you. They offered me 347.00USD for 05 files that I edited, translated and proofread, the rate was 5.00USD per page, I think that's a very good rate for me as I only have 2 years of experience and am currently studying Public Translation, we agreed that the method of payment was PayPal. I already contacted the end client today and they (it's an enterprise) told me to call again on Monday but seemed very worried about this issue. Also, I forgot to mention that I didn't sign a NDA contract so there's nothing stopping me from contacting the end client.
Thank you for the BB tip, I am intending to pay my membership at Proz after this problem so that I won't get scammed again.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 14:14
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Professional ethics | Oct 25, 2020 |
Maria Toresani wrote:
the rate was 5.00USD per page, I think that's a very good rate for me as I only have 2 years of experience
How long does it take you to translate and proofread a page? It takes me an hour, and USD 5.00 an hour isn't a survivable rate here in Europe. But maybe I'm not comparing like for like.
I forgot to mention that I didn't sign a NDA contract so there's nothing stopping me from contacting the end client
Professional ethics should prevent you contacting the end client in any but the most dire circumstances. Client confidentiality has to be right at the top of the list of priorities in our job. The outcome also may not be helpful. You might shame the agency into paying but you certainly can't expect the end client to pay you. Their contract is with the agency, not you.
Personally, I would find it hard to trust an agency that promised to pay within 7 days, unless their BB record upheld that particular claim. They are supposed to have your work proofread, so their own delivery deadline to the end client is likely to be several days after your own deadline. Their client must also be given time to have the work checked and perhaps raise a complaint, and any complaint will need time to resolve. All that really needs to happen before you get paid unless the agency is prepared to risk the whole amount. I do know of agencies who are prepared to accept that level of risk but they tend only to work with their own personal choices of service providers, and that isn't the normal way with India-based agencies.
I would actually have more faith in an agency that promised to pay at 30 days. It sounds absurd, but don't forget that one of the biggest scams around is the advance payment one. When something seems too good to be true, it's often best to doubt its verity.
| | | | | Even beginners are entitled to proper rates | Oct 25, 2020 |
Maria Toresani wrote:
...
They offered me 347.00USD for 05 files that I edited, translated and proofread, the rate was 5.00USD per page, I think that's a very good rate for me as I only have 2 years of experience and am currently studying Public Translation, we agreed that the method of payment was PayPal.
Even a beginner has to live. In this business, you only get one chance at each job, and a substandard translation is worthless to the client. On the other hand, a good translation has more or less the same value, no matter who did it.
So you should charge full rates, right from the start. Naturally, some things are more difficult than others to translate, so you can raise your price accordingly. As you gain experience, you will be able to take on more demanding work and charge more, but never set your rate unrealistically low, just because you are a beginner.
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 15:14
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Most of my customers are in Europe and the U.S., so I speak from that perspective.
It is extremely rare for a customer to offer payment at 7 days. Payment is most commonly made at 30-60 days. Strictly demanding payment at 7 days from a reputable company will quickly get you off their list of providers.
If the end client uses your translation without you having been paid, I believe you would have the right to contact them. There are probably some intricate legalities in... See more Most of my customers are in Europe and the U.S., so I speak from that perspective.
It is extremely rare for a customer to offer payment at 7 days. Payment is most commonly made at 30-60 days. Strictly demanding payment at 7 days from a reputable company will quickly get you off their list of providers.
If the end client uses your translation without you having been paid, I believe you would have the right to contact them. There are probably some intricate legalities involved that I don't know about. (IANAL)
My advice: keep a cool head and try to contact the agency, staying polite, and patiently wait if they tell you that they will pay in 30-60 days (despite their initial promise of 7 days). It is too early to get all bent out of shape. ▲ Collapse
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Aakash5555
India
Local time: 19:44
Member (2014)
English to Hindi
+ ...
| Give a negative comment | Oct 25, 2020 |
Hi,
I am from India and I would like to suggest that you should give this agency a negative comment on Blue board and talk to Proz people about this problem. Its true that many of these agencies are corrupt and try to exploit Translators. They often cheat Indian Translators also. They charge good rate from foreign clients and give peanut rates to The Translators who actually work. Indian Translators also take care while working with them.
But, I don't know how they get good ra... See more Hi,
I am from India and I would like to suggest that you should give this agency a negative comment on Blue board and talk to Proz people about this problem. Its true that many of these agencies are corrupt and try to exploit Translators. They often cheat Indian Translators also. They charge good rate from foreign clients and give peanut rates to The Translators who actually work. Indian Translators also take care while working with them.
But, I don't know how they get good ratings. Its not true that only Indian Translators give them these ratings. You can find many International good ratings also. So, I am also amazed that how do they get these ratings. ▲ Collapse
| | | | María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hello everyone,
First of all, THANK YOU. I will certainly change a lot of things from now on, sorry if I ever disrespected you if you think my rates are too low. That will be the first thing to change.
Just a quick update: the agency is threatening me with the payment and are only willing to pay if I delete the bad comments about them which I made on another Translators forum.
Funny thing: they contacted me through that forum first instead than to my email ... See more Hello everyone,
First of all, THANK YOU. I will certainly change a lot of things from now on, sorry if I ever disrespected you if you think my rates are too low. That will be the first thing to change.
Just a quick update: the agency is threatening me with the payment and are only willing to pay if I delete the bad comments about them which I made on another Translators forum.
Funny thing: they contacted me through that forum first instead than to my email or by message...
Another translator who went through this same issue as me, the only difference is that they owe him the money for more than a year now... is also complaining and says they are trying to cheat me to which I agree. They are threatening me saying they would pay only if I delete the post... which I won't do for now, I told them I would only after they pay me.
Besides, if they were actually really going to pay me, they could refute my comments showing the paid invoice. I do not intend to make bad comments for nothing, I am only interested in being paid for my work, nothing else.
[Edited at 2020-10-25 19:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 09:14
Japanese to English
+ ...
1) When carrying out due diligence on a new agency, the first preoccupation should be geographic
2) "Five-star rated" increasingly means less and less.
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 08:14
English to Russian
+ ...
| I though of this dilemma for many years | Oct 25, 2020 |
I'm sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant.
Should a rookie charge "full price" from the start?
$5/page is a highway robbery, no doubt. It's less than .02 a word based on a 300-word page.
On the other hand, there is no way a rookie, the most honest, hard-working, talented rookie can produce top quality.
In the ideal world, a marriage between a client who is not after a top-notch quality (perfectionists... See more I'm sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant.
Should a rookie charge "full price" from the start?
$5/page is a highway robbery, no doubt. It's less than .02 a word based on a 300-word page.
On the other hand, there is no way a rookie, the most honest, hard-working, talented rookie can produce top quality.
In the ideal world, a marriage between a client who is not after a top-notch quality (perfectionists, pleeeeease don't start!! ) and a good rookie would be the best thing out there, and the beginner's rate of 0.06 - 0.08 euros would be a fair deal, me think. The notion that one can't raise rates in the future ever again is absurd. Maybe not with the same client but in the rest of the whole wide world it is certainly possible.
But wouldn't charging Burberry prices for Euromart quality be cheating? Many goods sold by Euromart are quite acceptable for many purposes, including their lifespan; it's not all garbage or lemons. I don't think that even the richest of us are jumping exclusively between Burberry and Royce locations:-). Same with translation. High-end market will not dump its prices and best workforce just like Burberry does not dump any prices because of a Euromart 3 streets down. ▲ Collapse
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María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hello everyone,
Once again I want to update you: I GOT PAID! But only because I complained on another forum... and was supported by two other scammed translators by the same agency.
The agency threatened me (saying they would only pay me if I deleted the bad comments against them made on the forum), and it was a very nasty situation, I would not recommend working with that agency and certainly would not do in the future.
I will rate it and comment it on the BlueBo... See more Hello everyone,
Once again I want to update you: I GOT PAID! But only because I complained on another forum... and was supported by two other scammed translators by the same agency.
The agency threatened me (saying they would only pay me if I deleted the bad comments against them made on the forum), and it was a very nasty situation, I would not recommend working with that agency and certainly would not do in the future.
I will rate it and comment it on the BlueBoard and will pay Proz membership so I can get full access to the comments section, I don't want to be scammed or go through a similar situation like this again.
So something is for sure: The rate of the agency remains in 5 stars only because they threaten their translators (or some of them) with the payment.
I will change many things of how I manage myself, starting by my rates, I think I will need some counseling.
I am very grateful for all of your comments and advice, thank you again.
[Edited at 2020-10-26 03:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | María Toresani
Argentina
Local time: 11:14
Member (2022)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
IrinaN wrote:
I'm sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant.
Should a rookie charge "full price" from the start?
$5/page is a highway robbery, no doubt. It's less than .02 a word based on a 300-word page.
On the other hand, there is no way a rookie, the most honest, hard-working, talented rookie can produce top quality.
In the ideal world, a marriage between a client who is not after a top-notch quality (perfectionists, pleeeeease don't start!! ) and a good rookie would be the best thing out there, and the beginner's rate of 0.06 - 0.08 euros would be a fair deal, me think. The notion that one can't raise rates in the future ever again is absurd. Maybe not with the same client but in the rest of the whole wide world it is certainly possible.
But wouldn't charging Burberry prices for Euromart quality be cheating? Many goods sold by Euromart are quite acceptable for many purposes, including their lifespan; it's not all garbage or lemons. I don't think that even the richest of us are jumping exclusively between Burberry and Royce locations:-). Same with translation. High-end market will not dump its prices and best workforce just like Burberry does not dump any prices because of a Euromart 3 streets down.
I would like to add that in Argentina 1.00USD =181.00 pesos that's why getting paid this amount of dollars means a lot of money to me (around 60.000 PESOS!) and it's very different to other countries where the currencies may not be this devalued. But in any case, I know this is not an excuse and I should charge more, I will update my rates.
I'm feeling a bit attacked by this comments (not the quoted one)... We all start as rookies and learn throughout our ways. Also, I read all your comments and your locations show you are mostly from non-devalued currency countries. The payment I got means an entire month of food to me...
[Edited at 2020-10-26 00:35 GMT]
| | | | | the idea of "rookies" | Oct 26, 2020 |
IrinaN wrote:
I'm sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but it seems to be at least somewhat relevant.
Should a rookie charge "full price" from the start?
$5/page is a highway robbery, no doubt. It's less than .02 a word based on a 300-word page.
On the other hand, there is no way a rookie, the most honest, hard-working, talented rookie can produce top quality. ........
My thoughts.
First, nobody should be offering translations unless they can produce sufficient quality. I didn't get in until I had the training. That said, a beginner will not be as good as 10 - 20 years later - were it not so, this would be sad. But what that actually means is that to reach a similar quality, you need to spend maybe 4X as long in the beginning. Therefore your 0.15/word might translate into $7.00/hour as a beginner at the extreme end, and $50/hour later on. For the same reason you should not accept "rush" work with impossible deadlines, because you will not be able to produce quality that way - even the seasoned professional will be hard pressed.
A partially trained or untrained beginner should probably have some type of mentor / proofreader on hand, whom they pay (probably) to a) ensure quality, b) learn from.
A badly done translation is a useless translation, and can turn into a harmful translation in some instances.
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