| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | About the constant AI training job posts. Thread poster: Javi Tazinafo
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| You can check yourself, which job posters are paying members | Oct 3 |
ibz wrote:
ProZ will neither comment nor take action against such postings, though, because money is made from them (I assume).
While I cannot speak to what kind of jobs are allowed on the platform (not my department), you can easily see which job posters are members and which are not. It says so in every job post.
Apart from all of that, I just checked the first page of all currently open job posts, and none of them are the kind of jobs described in this thread.
What I can tell you is that we are constantly working on bringing opportunities to the platform. Example: Last month, we went to a conference in Montreal, this month, we're going to a conference in Prague, etc. All in an attempt to get business members (or users) to come to our platform and find you, our freelance members, for their projects. And we are working on services specifically tailored to LSP and direct clients — again, to get them to use the platform and find YOU. And lastly, as you've probably seen or heard already, we are working on a new site that is currently in the Alpha phase and being tested by paying members who expressed interest in contributing to the future of ProZ.
Hope this helps!
Tanya
| | | | Gianni Pastore 
Italy
Local time: 17:51
Member (2007)
English to Italian
| On the other end... | Oct 3 |
Javi Tazinafo wrote:
It reminded me of how Netflix completely ruined local video stores without really replacing them. You can't find as many movies and TV shows, some of them are only partially available, some of them are available only for some time due to licensing limitations, not to mention how things are spread out across different platforms, and you would have to sign up several of them to actually watch everything you wanted to watch. It's just worse in many ways. Not to mentioned the high churn of low quality original shows, half of which are cancelled, anyway. This is just to illustrate how an innovation can hurt or destroy a market without actually replacing or improving it. That said, AI _is_ a threat.
...demand for A/V translators and subtitlers has increased by a lot, so that's that.
And slightly OT: yes, the content is spreaded over several platform, but for the price of just one rental you can subscribe to one month on each platform and binge watch yourself to death.
[Edited at 2024-10-03 17:13 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 17:51
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Tanya Quintieri wrote:
Hi everyone, I was not aware of any questions regarding privacy issues with Pastey. If you need to know anything about Pastey, you can either submit a ticket or reach me directly via pastey@proz.com.
To answer your question: Pastey itself does not pose any danger to your data. It's just an interface that connects you to different LLM.
As long as you use the standard API by ProZ (and don't enter your own API), you should be good to go according to the LLMs' terms and conditions. Pastey uses ProZ's enterprise licenses with these LLMs.
ChatGPT (see first paragraph): https://openai.com/enterprise-privacy/
Claude (see A.4, last sentence): https://www.anthropic.com/legal/commercial-terms
Gemini (see 5th paragraph): https://cloud.google.com/gemini/docs/discover/data-governance
Hope that answers your questions.
PS: Always use AI tools with discretion and never submit any PII, no matter what their terms say.
Thanks for the clear answer!
| | | | ibz
Local time: 17:51
English to German
+ ...
Thank you for your answer! My experience is different : I actually do receive quite a lot of such job offers (English to German).
That said, Javi's question is still open:
[Quote]
I'm curious how other people feel about these constant AI training jobs. I think they shouldn't be allowed on this platform because (A) they are not relevant/not translation, and (B) they are a threat to us, the "ProZ". And ProZ should take a stand on it. [Unquote]
Can you e... See more Thank you for your answer! My experience is different : I actually do receive quite a lot of such job offers (English to German).
That said, Javi's question is still open:
[Quote]
I'm curious how other people feel about these constant AI training jobs. I think they shouldn't be allowed on this platform because (A) they are not relevant/not translation, and (B) they are a threat to us, the "ProZ". And ProZ should take a stand on it. [Unquote]
Can you explain or have someone from the relevant department explain why such jobs that are not relevant to translation are allowed on this platform for professional translators? Or maybe such jobs are not not posted on the website but sent directly to ProZ members? (I never checked if this is the case.) ▲ Collapse
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| I had a discussion about this with ProZ staff | Oct 4 |
Back in July I also got quite fed up with the constant, repeated job posts from one particular company, where they marked the "Required service" as "Translation", but in fact the job was not that at all. It involved looking through search results, images and such and decide whether they are pornographic or violent, etc.
Absolutely not translation jobs.
The first one I reported was removed, then I reported a whole bunch of them, several of them were duplicates, and started to ... See more Back in July I also got quite fed up with the constant, repeated job posts from one particular company, where they marked the "Required service" as "Translation", but in fact the job was not that at all. It involved looking through search results, images and such and decide whether they are pornographic or violent, etc.
Absolutely not translation jobs.
The first one I reported was removed, then I reported a whole bunch of them, several of them were duplicates, and started to get boilerplate replies saying that those did not violate job posting rules.
I said: "I submitted several job posts by the same company, some of them are repeats, all with the same issue. The jobs do not require the specific skillset that ProZ members have. ProZ members want to be targeted by appropriate job offers. These jobs by XXXXX can be done by anyone who is willing to work for minimum wage, so they are not appropriate for ProZ.com's job board, especially not as jobs specifically targeted to (paying) Members. Please go over these tickets that were assigned to someone else who did not seem to actually read the content of the posts and what the job entails, and take appropriate action (i.e. please remove them). Thank you.
Here is the list of tickets..."
I received this reply:
"In the past, job postings that do not particularly require translation or interpreting services are being removed. Please note that the site staff reviewed the matter and it has been decided to take a new approach that job postings with language components that are still in line with site rule, https://www.proz.com/siterules/jobs_posting/1.1#1.1 (such as these job postings by XXXXX), will be vetted provided that they are not duplicate postings of already existing ones and does not violate the job posting rules.
As for the other job postings, I see that my colleague is already addressing this in, https://www.proz.com/ticket/XXXX. I am closing this support request to allow us to keep all information on this matter in one place.
By the way, below I detail the ways in which you can prevent specific individuals or companies from contacting you through the site:
You can block a specific ProZ.com profile, Blue Board record, IP address or email domain from messaging you, here:
https://www.proz.com/?sp=profile&sp_mode=settings&sp_submode=ef
If you think that a company or profile is not likely to post jobs that are of interest to you, you can flag or filter notifications from specific profiles, companies or Blue Board records, here:
https://www.proz.com/dashboard/jobs/?sp_jobs_mode=flagsandfilters
A person's profile ID or a company's Blue Board ID is the number at the end of their profile or record's URL.
If you need any help setting up your notifications or email settings to your liking, please re-open this support request or submit a new one and we will be happy to help.
Thanks for your patience."
Frankly, it was going nowhere, so I stopped pushing the issue, and submitted this feedback on the closed Support Request:
"Repeated boilerplate answers, not addressing the actual problem. I am disappointed that it took several back-and-forth to make you guys actually read the posts and realize they are duplicate, and finally remove at least the copies. It seems that vetting decisions are based on what the poster selects as "Service required", even though the actual job is not that at all. This policy allows the job board to be flooded with irrelevant, low-paying job offers, that don't help your members and the industry at all. You should go back to your previous policy of vetting/removing jobs based on their actual content, and disallowing jobs that are not specifically translation/interpretation jobs. You should do this at least for the "Members-only" jobs. In other words, if you are allowing a poster to restrict the job to paying members, then the job should be specifically for professional translators/interpreters/editors." Jul 24
[Edited at 2024-10-04 23:19 GMT]
[Edited at 2024-10-04 23:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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ibz wrote:
Can you explain or have someone from the relevant department explain why such jobs that are not relevant to translation are allowed on this platform for professional translators? Or maybe such jobs are not not posted on the website but sent directly to ProZ members? (I never checked if this is the case.)
I cannot explain it. But I will bring it up with the team.
| | | | Javi Tazinafo
Brazil
Local time: 13:51
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
TOPIC STARTER
Tanya Quintieri wrote:
ibz wrote:
Can you explain or have someone from the relevant department explain why such jobs that are not relevant to translation are allowed on this platform for professional translators? Or maybe such jobs are not not posted on the website but sent directly to ProZ members? (I never checked if this is the case.)
I cannot explain it. But I will bring it up with the team.
Please refer them to this thread and ask them to respond to us here. Thank you!
| | | | Schtroumpf
Local time: 17:51
German to French
+ ...
Dear all,
this question is meant to concern colleagues in all and every language pair around. Unfortunately, being a more or less retired, old-fashioned translator and not working actively in English, I am unable to understand the discussion when there are too many abbreviations around. It’s perfectly OK to talk about AI, CVs, OT and MTPE, but how about these??
“...connects you to different LLM. As long as you use the standard API by ProZ...”
“...services specifically t... See more Dear all,
this question is meant to concern colleagues in all and every language pair around. Unfortunately, being a more or less retired, old-fashioned translator and not working actively in English, I am unable to understand the discussion when there are too many abbreviations around. It’s perfectly OK to talk about AI, CVs, OT and MTPE, but how about these??
“...connects you to different LLM. As long as you use the standard API by ProZ...”
“...services specifically tailored to LSP and direct clients...”
Maybe LSP means linguistic service providers? Please take half a minute of your precious time when posting your contributions and write it out in full next time. Thank you! ▲ Collapse
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Javi Tazinafo
Brazil
Local time: 13:51
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
TOPIC STARTER
Schtroumpf wrote:
Dear all,
this question is meant to concern colleagues in all and every language pair around. Unfortunately, being a more or less retired, old-fashioned translator and not working actively in English, I am unable to understand the discussion when there are too many abbreviations around. It’s perfectly OK to talk about AI, CVs, OT and MTPE, but how about these??
“...connects you to different LLM. As long as you use the standard API by ProZ...”
“...services specifically tailored to LSP and direct clients...”
Maybe LSP means linguistic service providers? Please take half a minute of your precious time when posting your contributions and write it out in full next time. Thank you!
I find it difficult to catch up with some unnecessary acronyms too. I'm not a fan.
Folks, please feel free to correct any details I may have gotten wrong, but it's more or less like this:
LLM refers to the different AI models out there that companies can use to implement their own AI solutions. ChatGPT's LLM can be implemented into a CAT-tool to create AI-based machine translation suggestions, for example.
API is an interface between two or more different pieces of software used for when you one certain functionalities of a software solution integrated into a different piece of software. For example, Pastey can use different APIs to integrate different LLMs into it to get AI translation suggestions from different AI models working in the same tool.
Yes, LSPs are linguistic service providers, but I just call them translation agencies.
PIIs are just personally identifying information. The kind you don't want to give away to corporations unknowingly, hence all the comotion about privacy issues in the last few years.
I hope it helps! When in doubt, just Google it, but I agree it shouldn't be necessary.
| | | | | Help us meet everyone's expectations | Oct 8 |
Thank you for your comments and interest in improving our services. Be assured that I do understand your position and frustration, and appreciate the opportunity to discuss how to serve our members better. Please allow me to explain our position and correct some assumptions.
1. ProZ.com doesn't charge to post a job in the Job Post Board. Our job is to bring more opportunities to our members.
2. While we would like to promptly respond and participate in all the forums, resource... See more Thank you for your comments and interest in improving our services. Be assured that I do understand your position and frustration, and appreciate the opportunity to discuss how to serve our members better. Please allow me to explain our position and correct some assumptions.
1. ProZ.com doesn't charge to post a job in the Job Post Board. Our job is to bring more opportunities to our members.
2. While we would like to promptly respond and participate in all the forums, resources are finite and we are not always able to participate in the dozens of forums. We truly apologize. It is not avoidance or lack of interest, as it has been suggested.
3. ProZ.com has the interests of our members front and center and are constantly working to serve them well and meet their expectations. We do value your feedback, and don't shy away from the negative ones. It is always better to hear we are doing a good job, but negative feedback, when truly meant to improve the site, is seen as a blessing, because help us do better.
ProZ.com is also trying to figure out how to navigate the changes that generative AI is bringing to the industry and linguists. While the group in this forum thinks these jobs shouldn't be allowed, other members have communicated that they want to have access to them and don't want us to prohibit them. It is difficult to get consensus among thousands of members.
At the moment, the best way we found to serve both groups is to encourage you to customize your notifications. We are working on other features that will allow members to easily identify and handle them in a way that best suits each one of our members.
Although our rule is to allow only jobs that require language skills, some times we misclassify them and they get posted. There are hundreds of jobs posted every day. You only see what passes the vetting which is only part of all jobs we review daily. Trust me, the decision is not always a clear-cut and we make mistakes.
I'd like to take this opportunity to get your input and ideas to help us handle these jobs, making sure we meet all our members needs and wishes. I'll check this forum daily and will note all your suggestions to discuss internally.
Thank you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | ProZ.com doesn't charge to post a job | Oct 8 |
ibz wrote:
Javi Tazinafo wrote:
Has ProZ said anything publicly about this? If not, I think it's time they did. Is there any way to draw one of their representatives directly to this post?
Good luck with that! Judging by my experience with AI critical discussions, you won't get any answer by ProZ representatives. I am always very annoyed by such job offers as well, which keep coming in more and more. Why on earth would a serious translator be interested in doing such boring work, which in my opinion has nothing to do with professional translating? I really don't understand it. ProZ will neither comment nor take action against such postings, though, because money is made from them (I assume).
ProZ.com doesn't make money from jobs posted because it is free to post a job.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 17:51
English to German
+ ...
in the mid term, this kind of jobs erodes translators' and ProZ's own basis of existence. So we all need to think long-term.
I've honestly never seen someone acting that counterproductive for themself.
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ibz
Local time: 17:51
English to German
+ ...
| With Zea and @Monica | Oct 9 |
You're saying that ProZ is not making money by letting everyone posting jobs but you're indirectly making money by artificially boosting you job platform, thereby trying to gain paying members.
What ProZ is not considering is that such job postings that have nothing whatsoever to do with PROFESSIONAL translation are undermining the relevance of this site.
(This by one former paying member who has never ever replied to any job offer posted here as I've never been interested in gainin... See more You're saying that ProZ is not making money by letting everyone posting jobs but you're indirectly making money by artificially boosting you job platform, thereby trying to gain paying members.
What ProZ is not considering is that such job postings that have nothing whatsoever to do with PROFESSIONAL translation are undermining the relevance of this site.
(This by one former paying member who has never ever replied to any job offer posted here as I've never been interested in gaining clients via this site.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We are listening to all our members | Oct 9 |
ibz wrote:
You're saying that ProZ is not making money by letting everyone posting jobs but you're indirectly making money by artificially boosting you job platform, thereby trying to gain paying members.
What ProZ is not considering is that such job postings that have nothing whatsoever to do with PROFESSIONAL translation are undermining the relevance of this site.
(This by one former paying member who has never ever replied to any job offer posted here as I've never been interested in gaining clients via this site.)
Thanks, Ibz. We are listening to all our members and considering all arguments.
| | | | | Urging you to stay focused and be productive | Oct 9 |
I'd like to stay focused on the issue at hand, so we can be productive and have concrete results. The question is:
How can ProZ.com serve the members who are against these job posts and want them banned, and the members who see the language related AI jobs an opportunity to expand the services they offer, in face of a technology that is changing the industry, therefore want to see these jobs on the board?
Thanks!!
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