| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Thoughts on ATA? Thread poster: Preston Decker
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Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:22
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Unconvincing | Jan 20, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Maybe there's too little demand in that language combination, or not enough skilled examiners in it.
Samuel, you're a sensible guy but I just can't agree with you on this one. As I said, we're talking about two of the largest languages in the world and about huge economic pipelines between China (second largest economy in the world, maybe the largest on some counts, please note) and major English-speaking economies such as the US, Canada, Australia and the UK. I can't see how one could credibly argue that there is insufficient demand. In 1995, maybe. In 2015? Really?
As for examiners, the ATA should go find them. People like Preston are paying money to the ATA and if the ATA cared enough then the system would already have been put in place. It's a revelation to me - and not in a good way - that a body like the ATA could consider this to be an acceptable situation. Who do they think they represent?
Regards
Dan
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:22
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| I think Saint Jerome would agree. | Jan 20, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Michael Beijer wrote:
Given the way I work, I'd say forcing me to do a test with a pen, in a closed environment, with a very restricted time limit, with only paper dictionaries allowed … would amount to cheating, but by the ATA. I don't work like that, and haven't for around 20 years now. In what way would this be a test of my abilities as a translator in the real world?
I don't think any translator works like that anymore, but many exams in other fields or at other institutions are still written in longhand, i.e. pen and paper, even though very few people will actually write e.g. a full report on paper these days. What's more, forcing all candidates to use pen and paper levels the playing field -- all translators are under the exact same pressures. You might think that it would put you at a disadvantage, but you're actually at the same disadvantage as everyone else. And, the purpose of the exam is not to test how well you would do "in the real world".
No one translates like that anymore, so they are not testing our skills as modern-day translators. You put it nicely, when you said: the purpose of the exam is not to test how well you would do "in the real world".
Indeed, it tests how well a person can translate something with a pen, from memory. People with great memories will be at an advantage here. I am not one of them, which means I am at a disadvantage. So much for levelling the playing field.
Furthermore, over the years, I have put a lot of hard work into honing my computers-assisted translation skills (CAT tools, QA routines, Autohotkey scripts, corpora, online dictionaries, IntelliWebSearch, etc.). However, I also know a lot of people who rely much less on their computers when translating (and who would probably thoroughly mess up a large software manual translation or complex tender document). These people wouldn't mind using a pen nearly as much as I would. This is another argument against your statement that the test levels the playing field.
Luckily, the whole thing is moot, for me at least, as I have no desire or need to actually take the stupid test. I wouldn't want to be a member of an association for translators (which translators???) that tests its members using a test that doesn't assess how we actually work in 2015. I think Saint Jerome would agree.
How hard would it be to come up with a modern solution involving TeamViewer or some sort of screen recorder, where the translator could just do the test at home, under natural conditions? Wouldn't it be much better to test the quality of the work the person would be likely to actually achieve at home? After all, that's what ends up getting sent to the client…
[Edited at 2015-01-20 12:58 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-01-20 13:37 GMT]
| | | | Preston Decker
United States
Local time: 05:22
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER
bohy wrote:
The only interest I've found in ATA membership is to be listed as "Certified translator", which helps stand out somewhat. I get most of my customers through the ATA (but it has decreased these last years). Agencies usually accept decent rates. If not certified, I don't think it wold be worth the money.
I do understand that there is no ATA certification in your pair, but the process to include a new certification pair is long. Are you sure there's not something on the way? Did you ask ATA? It may help you decide if you want to wait or not.
I've checked the translators listing for your pair. It's true that you get 339 results, but if you make an advanced search, requesting only translators whose native language is English (your target language), you'll find only 100 translators, and you are in good place (20th).
So, obviously the results are swamped by 70% of translators that don't translate into their native language...
Knowing that there is no certification in your pair to help you stand out, you should probably react officially towards ATA to avoid at least this swamping.
You could propose for instance that, for the language pairs where there is no certification at least, the translators which are native speakers of this target language be listed first. This implies of course a software modification, but as all data are in the database, it should be feasible. Not sure how long it would take, though.
I somehow missed your post, but I like your suggestion, and I will bring this up to the ATA.
[Edited at 2015-01-20 13:36 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 05:22
Spanish to English
+ ...
I have an on and off again relationship with the ATA. In my early years (pre-Internet), it was a valuable source of information and my sole connection to other translators (I also had two articles published – one about the then new invention of dictionaries on CD-Rom and one from 1994 suggesting the introduction of a mentor program).
Five years later, I wasn’t getting anything out of it any more and I did not renew.
Then I rejoined in 2000 when the conference came ... See more I have an on and off again relationship with the ATA. In my early years (pre-Internet), it was a valuable source of information and my sole connection to other translators (I also had two articles published – one about the then new invention of dictionaries on CD-Rom and one from 1994 suggesting the introduction of a mentor program).
Five years later, I wasn’t getting anything out of it any more and I did not renew.
Then I rejoined in 2000 when the conference came to Florida. A few years later, I again cancelled my membership because it seemed too agency-oriented and agency-business oriented rather than translator business oriented.
Then, in 2009, I joined again when I saw stuff like this that seemed to suggest that the ATA was finally doing something to actually support the industry:
https://www.atanet.org/pressroom/whitehouse_letter_oct2_2009.pdf
and this:
http://atanet.org/pressroom/linkedIn_2009.pdf
Sadly, this attitude seemed to fade away, I also never got any contacts from the ATA directory (which seems like it’s very hard to find – perhaps because the ATA also has agencies as members, they don’t want clients contacting us directly?), and the ATA chronicle never seemed to deal with anything having to do with actual translation, but just CAT tools and marketing (neither of which are currently relevant to me).
The conference is coming to Miami in 2015, I shall attend as a non-member and decide whether or not to join again.
[Edited at 2015-01-20 14:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Edwin den Boer
Netherlands
Local time: 11:22
Member (2009)
English to Dutch
| A very careful and thorough process... | Jan 20, 2015 |
The ATA website mentions that adding a new language combination for certification typically takes four years, so maybe they're already working on Chinese to English. If not, you may have to wait for quite a while...
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 04:22
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Clarifying misconceptions | Jan 20, 2015 |
I don't speak for the ATA, but, as I do have first-hand knowledge of the workings of the certification program, I wanted to speak and clarify a few misconceptions.
For one, the ATA does not set policy as to what languages are or are not included in the certification scheme. Whether a language combination/direction becomes part of the certification scheme is entirely member-driven. Since the process from inception to formal inclusion can be quite long and involved, as there are a fai... See more I don't speak for the ATA, but, as I do have first-hand knowledge of the workings of the certification program, I wanted to speak and clarify a few misconceptions.
For one, the ATA does not set policy as to what languages are or are not included in the certification scheme. Whether a language combination/direction becomes part of the certification scheme is entirely member-driven. Since the process from inception to formal inclusion can be quite long and involved, as there are a fair number of steps to go through and requirements to meet, this is largely a function of how well organized, motivated and persistent the relevant member constituency is. The ATA does set the requirements for inclusion, but these apply to any prospective combination. If you are interested in the status of a particular combination that is not currently offered, or want to get involved, you should be feel free to contact the ATA and ask.
As for the handwritten test issue, this has been brought up many times. The reason for the handwritten exam is not that the ATA are a bunch of Luddites, but that the current certification system, which is based on the (mostly) unremunerated labor of certified members who volunteer their time as graders, requires extremely strict information security to prevent communication of the test contents outside of the testing environment. With a keyboarded environment, this can only be achieved at a few selected testing centers where support is close at hand, as the technical requirements are actually rather daunting. The ATA has been offering keyboarded exams a few times a year, generally at the Annual Conference, and they absolutely do appreciate that the handwriting requirement for most exams is keeping some people away, and they are always considering ways to make it more accessible. While solutions such as Michael's, e.g., taking the exam at home with TeamViewer or the like, are certainly possible as a general testing concept, widespread extension of the keyboarded exam to remote centers or the home environment would require a total overhaul of how the test passages are devised and of other elements of the test as well.
I hope that at some of this information has been useful.
Regards,
Rudi
[Edited at 2015-01-20 15:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 05:22
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Making the test more convenient | Jan 20, 2015 |
I personally do not see having to handwrite the translations for the ATA Certification exam as a particularly onerous requirement. However I do sympathize with people who find themselves facing the prospect of travelling hundreds of miles just to take a test that lasts no more than a few hours. What ATA might consider doing to alleviate this problem for significant numbers of persons is contracting with a service like Prometric to administer the test in their centers.
The increased... See more I personally do not see having to handwrite the translations for the ATA Certification exam as a particularly onerous requirement. However I do sympathize with people who find themselves facing the prospect of travelling hundreds of miles just to take a test that lasts no more than a few hours. What ATA might consider doing to alleviate this problem for significant numbers of persons is contracting with a service like Prometric to administer the test in their centers.
The increased fees resulting from this kind of solution would perhaps not greatly exceed the expenditures involved in travelling hundreds of miles. In addition, this type of administration would save a lot of time for significant numbers of test-takers, and would enable the exam to be administered via computer, eliminating the cumbersomeness of handwriting. Perhaps the computers used in such a setting could even be rigged to provide access to particular online resources (but not the entirety of the internet) thus dispensing with the need of exam-takers to lug half a dozen dictionaries and thesauri into the exam room.... ▲ Collapse
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I am also a fellow Chinese > English translator just returned to the U.S. due to family reasons. Several fellow Spanish translators mentioned about the certification so I thought about getting a membership right away. Alas, the surprise when I couldn't find my language pair before waving the $300 membership fee goodbye. Any updates on whether it is still worth the while for those who cannot get any certification?
Afterall, $300 is still quite a bit for a start-up. I would like putt... See more I am also a fellow Chinese > English translator just returned to the U.S. due to family reasons. Several fellow Spanish translators mentioned about the certification so I thought about getting a membership right away. Alas, the surprise when I couldn't find my language pair before waving the $300 membership fee goodbye. Any updates on whether it is still worth the while for those who cannot get any certification?
Afterall, $300 is still quite a bit for a start-up. I would like putting it to some good use.
[Edited at 2017-08-03 23:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| but isn't it the same on PROZ? | Aug 6, 2017 |
bohy wrote:
So, obviously the results are swamped by 70% of translators that don't translate into their native language...
| | | | | The test can now be taken writing on your laptop | Aug 7, 2017 |
Since so many in this thread complain specifically about the ATA test being handwritten: the test is now offered also using computers.
| | | | | Comparing apples with pears - no offense | Aug 7, 2017 |
I would never compare my membership with ProZ to a membership with a professional association. They are two very different things. IMHO many people join associations for the wrong reasons, including the weird assumption that a listing in their directory is the benefit of the membership. Associations, unlike platforms like ProZ, are not meant to replace your own marketing efforts. They offer CPD, they speak up for the profession as a whole. If you're not getting any value out of your membership w... See more I would never compare my membership with ProZ to a membership with a professional association. They are two very different things. IMHO many people join associations for the wrong reasons, including the weird assumption that a listing in their directory is the benefit of the membership. Associations, unlike platforms like ProZ, are not meant to replace your own marketing efforts. They offer CPD, they speak up for the profession as a whole. If you're not getting any value out of your membership with an association then you should rethink your expectations.
Never join an association asking yourself what they can do for you. You should be asking yourself what you can contribute to the profession through your membership. That can be your money (membership fee), time, knowledge, talents...
Really no offense. Just trying to raise awareness. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Different value | Aug 8, 2017 |
Tanya Quintieri wrote:
I would never compare my membership with ProZ to a membership with a professional association. They are two very different things. IMHO many people join associations for the wrong reasons, including the weird assumption that a listing in their directory is the benefit of the membership. Associations, unlike platforms like ProZ, are not meant to replace your own marketing efforts. They offer CPD, they speak up for the profession as a whole. If you're not getting any value out of your membership with an association then you should rethink your expectations.
Never join an association asking yourself what they can do for you. You should be asking yourself what you can contribute to the profession through your membership. That can be your money (membership fee), time, knowledge, talents...
Really no offense. Just trying to raise awareness.
Indeed, these associations offer different values depending on your level in the organization. I'm not sure they really manage to defend the profession (except the Canadian OTTIAQ). If you compare the rates between Canada and France for EN>FR translation, there's a world of difference. Besides, I don't have too much time to devote and I'm quite far away.
[Modifié le 2017-08-08 13:48 GMT]
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Tanya Quintieri wrote:
I would never compare my membership with ProZ to a membership with a professional association. They are two very different things. IMHO many people join associations for the wrong reasons, including the weird assumption that a listing in their directory is the benefit of the membership. Associations, unlike platforms like ProZ, are not meant to replace your own marketing efforts. They offer CPD, they speak up for the profession as a whole. If you're not getting any value out of your membership with an association then you should rethink your expectations.
Never join an association asking yourself what they can do for you. You should be asking yourself what you can contribute to the profession through your membership. That can be your money (membership fee), time, knowledge, talents...
Really no offense. Just trying to raise awareness.
That is too ideal, the world doesn't work like that. Of course people join because there is something in it for them. There is an expectation. No one want to pay a couple hundreds or couple thousands to just "contribute" and get nothing in return, even if they do, they are looking for more exposure for their services. Btw, ATA doesn't really speak out for you, YOU speak out for your work. ATA is looking out for itself first, and then take care of your business. They have proved that time and time again, and that's just what an organization does. You have to judge whether the organization is worth it for you.
[Edited at 2024-11-03 03:38 GMT]
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