| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18] > | Moving on from freelance translation, starting a new career Thread poster: James Greenfield
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Gregory Thomas (X)
United States
Local time: 09:51
English to Greek
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| A very rare industry | Feb 20 |
Christopher Schröder wrote: I don’t work full time. Does that mean I don’t count?
Prices didn't start high everywhere. When it was 0.12 in the US (arbitrarily reached between US/North EU agencies/translators), agencies in cheap European countries were at $5/page. Translators in these countries were unaware, due to complete lack of pricing information throughout the industry. Prices remain higher in the past as a result of pressure from the US/North European translators. When they became a small minority, prices fell.
Translators in cheaper countries and Part Timers have little incentive to negotiate prices upwards. There are exceptions, but most just accept whatever comes. You can't find many part-time lawyers or part-time certified accountants (very few, but not many). In most sectors, paid part-timers are a minority.
It's rather unique - and shocking - to have an industry where over 95% are part-timers.
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Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
Translators in cheaper countries and Part Timers have little incentive to negotiate prices upwards. There are exceptions, but most just accept whatever comes. You can't find many part-time lawyers or part-time certified accountants (very few, but not many). In most sectors, paid part-timers are a minority.
It's rather unique - and shocking - to have an industry where over 95% are part-timers.
Why do you think part-timers have no interest in asking for higher prices?
Surely (almost) all people work for the same reasons, i.e. they need the money.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:51
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
It's rather unique - and shocking - to have an industry where over 95% are part-timers.
Why is that shocking? Apparently it has always been that way and yet here I am, a full-time freelancer since 2005 with an ever-increasing income until last year. And yes, that might be because I started low enough 18 years ago, but I've always earned a decent living and do you even consider the possibility that not everyone is seeking to earn hundreds of thousands of euros or dollars a year? I don't give a damn about the fact that other people earn 5 or 10 times as much as I do. Good for them, but I don't care.
All this drama, my goodness. It's perfectly possible that I will be out of work in a few years, but God forbid that I should write complete novels about how terrible that is. I will start a new career (meaning nothing more than finding me a new job) and perhaps continue to be a part-time freelancer. And that will be that.
| | | | Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| A future in amateur dramatics beckons! | Feb 20 |
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
It's rather unique - and shocking - to have an industry where over 95% are part-timers.
Yes, it's unique, which is why it would be naïve as well as pointless to compare it to other lines of work. How many deregulated global markets can you name?
Accountancy isn't one.
Law isn't one.
Medicine isn't one.
Engineering isn't one.
I could go on (and on), but all of those require many years of structured learning supervised by designated regulatory bodies before one can even start to practice as an independent worker.
Translation is highly unusual, and that cuts both ways. If you haven't worked this out by now, and you're shocked, I suspect you have not been paying attention. Too busy yelling at clouds, perhaps.
Dan
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P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 16:51
English to Italian
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Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
In my early 40's – that means in 2008-'09 – I couldn't get translation work for love nor money,
This was an eye-opener for me. I can not imagine this - in my world, if I ever go two full weeks without jobs at least covering expenses, I'll submit the last invoices, move all translation-related content to another hard drive, take a three-week vacation, and start looking for something else aggressively.
Well, I guess my English isn't that perfect after all (@Angie: but I'm grateful for your kind, uplifting words!), because I don't understand whether Lefteris was being insulting or not.
Dear colleagues, could you please enlighten me?
Someone who doesn't know anything about me and my current/past circumstances should refrain from making assumptions. I'm not going to elaborate further, or explain myself – it would be uninteresting to you, painful to me.
By the way, I've always been a full-time translator. It's the only thing at which I'm not too shabby – translating and writing – admittedly, not the most profitable skills to have, but those are the cards I've been dealt with.
@Dan: Well said, sir!
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 16:51
English to German
+ ...
| part-time, full-time, freelancers, employees... | Feb 20 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
How many deregulated global markets can you name?
To mention just a few: most of those where creativity is involved, or the IT field - artists, writers, graphic designers, coders...
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
It's rather unique - and shocking - to have an industry where over 95% are part-timers.
I guess this can only be "shocking" to someone who has spent most of their working life as an employee.
PS: freelancers are adventure-seekers. 
[Bearbeitet am 2024-02-20 09:47 GMT]
| | | | | What does mean part-timer? | Feb 20 |
Is a translator that works in a concentrated manner 5 or 6 hours a day or even less, making a living from his work, without any side job or other income, considered a part-timer?
I don't think so.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:51
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Christel Zipfel wrote:
Is a translator that works in a concentrated manner 5 or 6 hours a day or even less, making a living from his work, without any side job or other income, considered a part-timer?
I don't think so.
You are describing a fulltime freelancer. Parttime just means that you don't work full days translating, be it because you have another job or you don't need the money that you earn by working fulltime.
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:51
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Christel Zipfel wrote:
Is a translator that works in a concentrated manner 5 or 6 hours a day or even less, making a living from his work, without any side job or other income, considered a part-timer?
I don't think so.
I think what they meant by a part-timer here is those who have a primary job (or a primary income) but jump into translation here and there for some side cash.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Zea_Mays wrote:
Dan Lucas wrote:
How many deregulated global markets can you name?
To mention just a few: most of those where creativity is involved, or the IT field - artists, writers, graphic designers, coders...
I agree that like translation these have virtually no barriers to entry other than talent, but like translation these are also typically thought of as being as precarious lines of work, rather than being "stable" professions comparable to law, medicine, finance, or engineering. So presumably Lefteris would look down on these as well.
Coding and other IT related work is a possible exception but even there precarity is an issue due to the ease with which one can be left behind and rendered uncompetitive by the speed of technological change.
Dan
| | | | Gregory Thomas (X)
United States
Local time: 09:51
English to Greek
+ ...
| Even the jungle has its regulator | Feb 20 |
P.L.F. Persio wrote: whether Lefteris was being insulting or not.
I wasn't trying to be insulting. It's just that I realized that my tolerance level with this sector had been wrong all along. I thought $8K-$11K/month was normal (it was actually abnormal that it lasted for years, especially in my cheap language pair). I expected too much for a lot longer than I should have, pushed myself (12-14 hr/day, no days off for years), destroyed my health, etc.
Just like many brutal-work-schedule software engineers in California are currently "yelling at the cloud" and complaining 24/7, although if they moved to India with even half the money, they'd be very happy.
PS: freelancers are adventure-seekers.
Oh yeah. During the good decades this job helped in relocating a lot, along with the adventures. That's a good reminder. I'm old now, complaining about the good old days. And watching the young ones mindlessly accepting MT to the extent that they have started talking funny themselves.
How many deregulated global markets can you name?
I think you mean "unregulated" (because "deregulated" implies that it was at some point).
Well, it doesn't have to be State-regulated: in this industry, the major agencies regulate the overall rates for the bulk (thus, a large part of the translator's income and lifestyle), they regulate deadlines, special software to be used, when you will get paid, etc. Even the jungle has its regulator: the strongest animals.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:51
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Yes, Lefteris, but you are just describing a typical supply chain principle.
Let's take milk for instance, from a farmer to shop shelves, there are many intermediaries, distributers and resellers and it's them who control the price, not the farmer. It's everywhere around. It won't change unfortunately.
The industry suffered some unfavorable changes through time (too many agencies, too many freelancers, low entry barriers, global crisis, pandemic, CAT fuzzies, AI), none ... See more Yes, Lefteris, but you are just describing a typical supply chain principle.
Let's take milk for instance, from a farmer to shop shelves, there are many intermediaries, distributers and resellers and it's them who control the price, not the farmer. It's everywhere around. It won't change unfortunately.
The industry suffered some unfavorable changes through time (too many agencies, too many freelancers, low entry barriers, global crisis, pandemic, CAT fuzzies, AI), none of which were good for freelancers and their prices. It's life and no security is guaranteed anywhere.
Here is for instance how farmers protest when they are not happy with the prices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka_Uv8MNQ8s
Translators would never be able to do that.
[Edited at 2024-02-20 11:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| On working part-time | Feb 20 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Christel Zipfel wrote:
Is a translator that works in a concentrated manner 5 or 6 hours a day or even less, making a living from his work, without any side job or other income, considered a part-timer? I don't think so.
You are describing a fulltime freelancer. Parttime just means that you don't work full days translating, be it because you have another job or you don't need the money that you earn by working fulltime.
I aim to work 25 hours a week. It's often much less. I consider that to be part-time. I don't have any side-hustles or other sources of income.
(For Lefteris' benefit, that has still been enough to buy and do up a large farmhouse, pay off the mortgage, support a disabled and largely non-working spouse, raise two kids and put them through college, do Dan's whole "Good Life" thing and generally live comfortably with a very expensive hobby - and then get divorced and still be a home-owner and debt-free with a pension pot big enough to retire comfortably at 60 if I so choose.)
Anyway, despite being a part-timer, I've never taken any shit off agencies. We all know their dodgy practices, and each of us just has to decide whether or how to deal with them.
My workload breaks down into roughly 50% for direct clients, 35% for boutique agencies and 15% for global behemoths (specifically two of the world's three largest agencies in 2022). That 15% is there for a reason. They need me, and they do things on my terms. Not because I accept MTPE or stupid rates or daft deadlines or any of their other nonsense. Luck and natural gifts have obviously also played a role in my career, but standing up for myself has been an important factor.
| | | | Gregory Thomas (X)
United States
Local time: 09:51
English to Greek
+ ...
| Please consider... | Feb 20 |
Lingua 5B wrote: Yes, Lefteris, but you are just describing a typical supply chain principle.
The reason I was trying to inform/educate translators in Greece 16-18 years ago about prices, was exactly the things you're describing. In short, they didn't know 0.12 existed, they were selling at 0.02. Agencies were keeping the balance of course, and made millions. Most didn't believe me (!), until I personally emailed them POs. One PO had 0.22 for 14K words, the guy asked me what that was, I told him "the overnight/urgent charge". To him it was like sci-fi.
Now also consider the point of view: you live in an area where $1,200 is good income. I live in an area where $6,000 is "almost ok".
And finally consider this: From the initial prices 25 years ago, it never went up. Always down. Even when agencies increased their own rates against their clients. Add to that the fuzzies and sub-fuzzies and then MT, and now we even have "MT with fuzzies" (sounds like ice cream). My biggest month in volume (wordcount) ever was last November, and the pay was laughable compared to 20 years ago (let alone inflation).
The unfortunate part is that there is no reason for it to go up. Sure, occasionally some will see temporary upticks in their volume, because someone else dropped out or because they started from very low or because a PM likes them personally.
But we'll talk about that again at the end of this year...
You all have a nice day.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:51
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Christopher Schröder wrote:
I aim to work 25 hours a week. It's often much less. I consider that to be part-time. I don't have any side-hustles or other sources of income.
That's part-time indeed. You are probably an exception, because I can't imagine that a lot of translators can do financially what you have done and still are doing while working only 25 hours a week.
Personally I aim at 47 hours a week, which turns out to be 40 hours a week on average over a whole year (because of the occasional slow periods and a few weeks of holidays). I'm talking about translation hours, not "sitting-at-my-desk" hours. I have no problem with this workload. It's considered normal in Belgium for someone who is self-employed. Besides that those hours are also theoretical hours, based on my expected hourly rate. In reality I often translate faster than my theoretical average, so more often than not I work less than 47 hours. I guess I should raise my expected hourly rate, but it has become a routine to work this way.
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