| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Highly elitist translation agencies Thread poster: Inge Schumacher
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Inge Schumacher 
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
Hi everyone,
I just stumbled over a new job offer for translation from EN, FR>DE for tourism.
Even though I'm completely at ease with English, French into German (especially French and German), and have excellent writing skills (not so much in English, I must admit ), I am a bit reluctant to apply.
The reason: They want somebody "Specialized in tourism" (do not apply if you are not an expert ... See more Hi everyone,
I just stumbled over a new job offer for translation from EN, FR>DE for tourism.
Even though I'm completely at ease with English, French into German (especially French and German), and have excellent writing skills (not so much in English, I must admit), I am a bit reluctant to apply.
The reason: They want somebody "Specialized in tourism" (do not apply if you are not an expert in this field), and I don't "dare" asking what they mean by "expert in tourism"! What kind of tourism?
Also, when I see agencies whose translators are HEC (Hautes Etudes Commerciales), Sciences Po, Ecole Polytechnique or, why not, ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration) graduates (these are the main French elite universities), I'm actually a bit perplexed.
Does anyone of you have experience with that kind of agency? Do you think it's worth bothering, or do these agencies prefer to stay within a certain milieu?
Thank you for your thoughts.
Kind regards,
Inge ▲ Collapse
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 13:43
English to German
+ ...
| Nothing elitist there IMO | Jan 8 |
They simply say that they need people who master the tourism marketing style (and terminology) with ease and are not generalists or from a purely legal or technical field, which would be reflected in their translations.
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Inge Schumacher wrote:
Also, when I see agencies whose translators are HEC (Hautes Etudes Commerciales), Sciences Po, Ecole Polytechnique or, why not, ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration) graduates (these are the main French elite universities), I'm actually a bit perplexed.
Does anyone of you have experience with that kind of agency? Do you think it's worth bothering, or do these agencies prefer to stay within a certain milieu?
Why do you think this makes them "elitist" and why are you troubled by it?
FWIW I graduated from an elite university but have worked alongside translators from all kinds of universities and found that it makes little difference where people studied - the only thing that matters is how good they are.
Looking at it the other way around, I also don't think my elite university background helps me in any way to get work.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 13:43
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Inge Schumacher wrote:
They want somebody "Specialized in tourism" (do not apply if you are not an expert in this field), and I don't "dare" asking what they mean by "expert in tourism"! What kind of tourism?
Tourism is one of those fields that many translators think is easy to work in, even if you have never worked in it. So, they're looking for someone who truly has experience working in this field. I'd say, if you have worked for 5-10 doing tourism-related translations, then you're an expert. The type of tourism is likely to be revealed when you contact them.
If you are quite confident that you would be able to be a good translator for them, then go ahead: contact them, and start by saying that you're a very good translator but that you don't have experience specifically in tourism, and that you recommend that they give you a try, etc.
Also, when I see agencies whose translators are HEC (Hautes Etudes Commerciales), Sciences Po, Ecole Polytechnique or, why not, ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration) graduates (these are the main French elite universities), I'm actually a bit perplexed.
I assume these are highly thought of universities in France...? Look, agencies need to convince clients to make use of their services, so naturally they're going to boast about anything that they possibly can, on their websites. There is nothing elitist about trying to create a good impression. The fact that an agency owner or project manager had a better education that you had, and is willing to say so, doesn't mean that they look down on you.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 13:43
French to English
I put tourism as a specialist subject, I've done plenty.
They're not expecting you to say you worked as a trilingual guide for 20 years at the Louvre or anything like that.
What they need is someone who can write well. Texts in travel magazines have to be easy to understand, and tempting, so you click on "book now". They are often deceptive, so you need to watch out. I was translating a text about a hotel where it said something about not having to cross any roads to get to ... See more I put tourism as a specialist subject, I've done plenty.
They're not expecting you to say you worked as a trilingual guide for 20 years at the Louvre or anything like that.
What they need is someone who can write well. Texts in travel magazines have to be easy to understand, and tempting, so you click on "book now". They are often deceptive, so you need to watch out. I was translating a text about a hotel where it said something about not having to cross any roads to get to the beach and I put "on the sea front" in my rough draft. Then I ended up checking the hotel out online for some other detail and saw that it was actually a good 200m from the beach, you had to trudge down a dirt track to get there. So OK there were no roads to cross but you couldn't just let the kids go ahead while you nipped back for a towel and you couldn't look out your bedroom window every half hour to check they hadn't been kidnapped or drowned either.
It can vary a lot too, sometimes you get endless descriptions of hotels, with lists of amenities like TV Wi-Fi hair dryer, or you can get complex descriptions of medieval architecture, symbolism and building techniques, that involve tons of research (and which I personally find utterly fascinating), then you're back to descriptions of menus that are mouthwatering for the French but would put your average Brit right off. I once translated a spiel that basically waxed lyrical about the taste of snails as "You can't say you've been to Burgundy until you've tried snails. Come on, we dare you!!"
The university you go to is very important in France, even when you've been working for 20 years. I went to the top translation school in France and while I didn't learn a thing there (I already had 15 years' experience in translation) I'm pretty sure clients are reassured to see that. ▲ Collapse
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Though I don’t work with those source and target languages I saw the job offer you’re talking about and I must say that I would be much more concerned with their BB rating than with their requirements. Translation of tourism texts poses many challenges: not only it requires good writing skills, but it also covers many subjects: history, culture, geography, architecture, art, archaeology, etc. I don’t mean to be rude, but I wonder if it’s a good move calling agencies “highly elitists”... See more Though I don’t work with those source and target languages I saw the job offer you’re talking about and I must say that I would be much more concerned with their BB rating than with their requirements. Translation of tourism texts poses many challenges: not only it requires good writing skills, but it also covers many subjects: history, culture, geography, architecture, art, archaeology, etc. I don’t mean to be rude, but I wonder if it’s a good move calling agencies “highly elitists” when you are getting established as a freelance and looking for clients. Are you sure they don’t read what we say on the forums? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Though I don’t work with those source and target languages I saw the job offer you’re talking about and I must say that I would be much more concerned with their BB rating than with their requirements. Translation of tourism texts poses many challenges: not only it requires good writing skills, but it also covers many subjects: history, culture, geography, architecture, art, archaeology, etc. I don’t mean to be rude, but I wonder if it’s... See more Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Though I don’t work with those source and target languages I saw the job offer you’re talking about and I must say that I would be much more concerned with their BB rating than with their requirements. Translation of tourism texts poses many challenges: not only it requires good writing skills, but it also covers many subjects: history, culture, geography, architecture, art, archaeology, etc. I don’t mean to be rude, but I wonder if it’s a good move calling agencies “highly elitists” when you are getting established as a freelance and looking for clients. Are you sure they don’t read what we say on the forums?
Hi Maria Teresa,
As I said, I'm very confident in my writing skills, and I also know France extremely well. I'm very interested in its culture, history, art, geography, archaeology, food, etc. etc. I decided to live in France more than 35 years ago, and I would never want to live anywhere else! I can't say that I'm a patriot, but it's just like. I also know Germany very well, a country I never liked (besides its forests, and.... the language used in German literature), and part of my family still lives in Germany.
As for the "elitist" side: France is very elite-oriented! One of my ex-partners is an ENARQUE himself, and I can tell you that these people just tend to consider others (the ones with a lower education) like subaltern and won't even consider having relationships with people of a lesser rank.
Maybe I'm unfair, but this is the experience I made. ▲ Collapse
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Inge Schumacher wrote:
As for the "elitist" side: France is very elite-oriented! One of my ex-partners is an ENARQUE himself, and I can tell you that these people just tend to consider others (the ones with a lower education) like subaltern and won't even consider having relationships with people of a lesser rank.
Maybe I'm unfair, but this is the experience I made.
Let’s agree to disagree! I lived in Belgium for 30 years and visited and worked in Strasbourg quite often (one week every month for a while).
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Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Christopher Schröder wrote:
"Why do you think this makes them "elitist" and why are you troubled by it?"
One of my ex-partners is an ENArque himself and I can tell you that the French "elite" consider others (with lesser education) as kind of subaltern and doesn't even consider having relationships with people of lesser rank. That's the way it works in France.
When I see an agency advertising for its services with the help of profiles like this, Yes, It d... See more Christopher Schröder wrote:
"Why do you think this makes them "elitist" and why are you troubled by it?"
One of my ex-partners is an ENArque himself and I can tell you that the French "elite" consider others (with lesser education) as kind of subaltern and doesn't even consider having relationships with people of lesser rank. That's the way it works in France.
When I see an agency advertising for its services with the help of profiles like this, Yes, It does make me feel uncomfortable, maybe because it gives me the impression that there is something that sounds "wrong"!
Why should a HEC, Science Po or ENA graduate become a translator? These people are hired from their universities before they even finish! They get the "red carpet" without even having to ask for it, and get really (sometimes extremely) highly paid jobs.
"FWIW I graduated from an elite university but have worked alongside translators from all kinds of universities and found that it makes little difference where people studied - the only thing that matters is how good they are."
That's the point! You have to be good! And, if you ARE good, no need to put forward your elitist education... unless it's the only thing you can sell. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Zea_Mays wrote:
"They simply say that they need people who master the tourism marketing style (and terminology) with ease and are not generalists or from a purely legal or technical field, which would be reflected in their translations."
So, if I'm a well-travelled person who loves to discover the world, its landscapes, its cultures, languages, food, geography, history, art, etc. etc. and open to other things than only "technical" stuff, I could work for them. Is this t... See more Zea_Mays wrote:
"They simply say that they need people who master the tourism marketing style (and terminology) with ease and are not generalists or from a purely legal or technical field, which would be reflected in their translations."
So, if I'm a well-travelled person who loves to discover the world, its landscapes, its cultures, languages, food, geography, history, art, etc. etc. and open to other things than only "technical" stuff, I could work for them. Is this the idea? ▲ Collapse
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Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Let’s agree to disagree! I lived in Belgium for 30 years and visited and worked in Strasbourg quite often (one week every month for a while).
Let's agree with your disagreement, I am half French (mom was), I lived in Italy at 150 km from the border, when in Italy same place almost at the border and I still have relatives in France. I know France very well.
[Edited at 2024-01-09 14:30 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:43
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
The tourism translation I did is esentially marketing. One phrase I translate may influence purchasing decisions of many, so I better watch how to word it.
But there may be other type of tourism translation as well. The other type may be instructional.
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Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kay Denney wrote:
"They're not expecting you to say you worked as a trilingual guide for 20 years at the Louvre or anything like that.
What they need is someone who can write well. Texts in travel magazines have to be easy to understand, and tempting, so you click on "book now". They are often deceptive, so you need to watch out. I was translating a text about a hotel where it said something about not having to cross any roads to get to the beach and I put "on the sea front"... See more Kay Denney wrote:
"They're not expecting you to say you worked as a trilingual guide for 20 years at the Louvre or anything like that.
What they need is someone who can write well. Texts in travel magazines have to be easy to understand, and tempting, so you click on "book now". They are often deceptive, so you need to watch out. I was translating a text about a hotel where it said something about not having to cross any roads to get to the beach and I put "on the sea front" in my rough draft. Then I ended up checking the hotel out online for some other detail and saw that it was actually a good 200m from the beach, you had to trudge down a dirt track to get there. So OK there were no roads to cross but you couldn't just let the kids go ahead while you nipped back for a towel and you couldn't look out your bedroom window every half hour to check they hadn't been kidnapped or drowned either."
You don't need to be an expert in tourism to know that kind of "surprise". J'ai bien sûr fait des traductions dans le domaine du tourisme (oh sorry, I'm going back to my every day's language) even if only for Google Ads.
"It can vary a lot too, sometimes you get endless descriptions of hotels, with lists of amenities like TV Wi-Fi hair dryer, or you can get complex descriptions of medieval architecture, symbolism and building techniques, that involve tons of research (and which I personally find utterly fascinating), then you're back to descriptions of menus that are mouthwatering for the French but would put your average Brit right off. I once translated a spiel that basically waxed lyrical about the taste of snails as "You can't say you've been to Burgundy until you've tried snails. Come on, we dare you!!"
This is exactly the reason why I would like to work in this field! I'm a true "Frenchy", a life-long lover of French, France, French countrysides, culture (including food), art, history, fashion, way-of-life, and I've lived, worked and travelled in France for more than 30 years. There is no other place in this world I would want to live.
"The university you go to is very important in France, even when you've been working for 20 years. I went to the top translation school in France and while I didn't learn a thing there (I already had 15 years' experience in translation) I'm pretty sure clients are reassured to see that."
I went to university in France, not the best one, I must admit, but, living in the South West, you don't really have much choice. I didn't learn Anything (well, I did Germanic Studies, so this is not a big surprise).
Anyway, maybe I'll go for it, as you suggested. As my partner always says: Nothing ventured, nothing gained! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | OKAY.... Maybe I just didn't meet "the right one" :-) | Jan 9 |
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Inge Schumacher wrote:
As for the "elitist" side: France is very elite-oriented! One of my ex-partners is an ENARQUE himself, and I can tell you that these people just tend to consider others (the ones with a lower education) like subaltern and won't even consider having relationships with people of a lesser rank.
Maybe I'm unfair, but this is the experience I made.
Let’s agree to disagree! I lived in Belgium for 30 years and visited and worked in Strasbourg quite often (one week every month for a while).
| | | | Inge Schumacher
France
Local time: 13:43
Member (2023)
French to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:
"Tourism is one of those fields that many translators think is easy to work in, even if you have never worked in it. So, they're looking for someone who truly has experience working in this field. I'd say, if you have worked for 5-10 doing tourism-related translations, then you're an expert. The type of tourism is likely to be revealed when you contact them."
Do you mean 5-10 YEARS?? What, if I've been a tourist myself, I mean living in France, discovering France, landscapes, seas, oceans, mountains, regions, cities, food, people, culture, art, history, architecture, politics, "geopolitics" (we have got that in France), ...?
"If you are quite confident that you would be able to be a good translator for them, then go ahead: contact them, and start by saying that you're a very good translator but that you don't have experience specifically in tourism, and that you recommend that they give you a try, etc."
I'll do that .
"The fact that an agency owner or project manager had a better education that you had, and is willing to say so, doesn't mean that they look down on you."
It's not so much the agency owner or project manager, it's just the profiles they display in their shop window! I've never seen something like this before.
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