| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53] > | Ten common myths about translation quality
|
|---|
| | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:47
Hebrew to English
| Not going anywhere | Aug 8, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I just wish this word totally disappeared from the modern linguistic scene
Well it's not going to, so there really is no point crusading against it.
| | | | | Yes, it will . You will remember my words | Aug 8, 2013 |
in a year, or two. I usually have good intuitions. -- because it does not make any sense anymore, at least in the US conditions. It may still make some sense in Europe, perhaps.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 19:33 GMT]
| | | | | These were not alternatives, but separate terms to describe various langauges | Aug 8, 2013 |
Denise Phelps wrote:
All these alternatives to the term "native language"
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I just wish this word totally disappeared from the modern linguistic scene -- it causes nothing but misunderstandings, restrictions (including the restrictions in its use), and trouble. I think they should only use: first language, second language, third language, dominant language, official language, the language the person is most comfortable to speak, the language the person prefers to use in writing, etc., the language the person identifies with, the language of their ancestors -- if someone wants to mention that., the language they love the most.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 17:25 GMT]
are simply partial definitions of the same, except "second language, third language", which are, of course, the correct terms to define languages learnt after (or even during) acquisition of the first (strongest, native) language. Oh, and I personally might have problems with the last two: language of my ancestors=Welsh (which I don't speak); language I love most=French (in which I can barely string two sentences together although my passive knowledge is excellent).
See how easy it is to define native language?
Edited to include the word "partial". [Edited at 2013-08-08 18:09 GMT]
why would anyone need a an alternative to a term that is vague in itself. It may take three different terms, or four, to describe certain phenomena correctly.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 19:38 GMT]
| | | |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Yes, it will . You will remember my words
in a year, or two. I usually have good intuitions. -- because it does not make any sense anymore, at least in the US conditions. It may still make some sense in Europe, perhaps.
We could leave this thread now and revisit it in a year or two, to see what happened. 
Regards,
Enrique
| | |
|
|
|
| I think this is a great idea. | Aug 8, 2013 |
This might be wise, instead of arguing now.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:47
Hebrew to English
| You're dreaming Lilian | Aug 8, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
in a year, or two. I usually have good intuitions. -- because it does not make any sense anymore, at least in the US conditions. It may still make some sense in Europe, perhaps.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 19:33 GMT]
The discipline of linguistics is simply not going to abandon a perfectly good term simply because you don't like it. Lilian, as the PROOF has been shown on this thread, it seems you're the only person in America NOT using the term.
MIT even recently published a book "native listening":
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/native-listening-0
| | | |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
We could leave this thread now and revisit it in a year or two, to see what happened.
Regards,
Enrique
Enrique, I think you can lock it, so it will take no more messages.
Some device, perhaps manual, will be needed to remind and reopen it one year from now.
That will be an omen for all the brave "contenders" here to stay in good shape until then!
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 00:47
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | @Lilian: Growing up in Hannover | Aug 8, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
and spend most of their childhood in streets -- they stay Spanish and Turkish native speakers for life, even if they have only lived in Harlem, or Hanover?
Ahem, if the kids get to grow up on the streets in Hannover, they are the luckiest kids ever. The German spoken in Hannover is considered the truest and most dialect-free German in the country. The pronunciation of Hannover German is considered the equivalent to news speaker German. Not sure why you compare Hannover to Harlem.
| | |
|
|
|
| I can asure you, that I am not the only person that finds the term senseless | Aug 8, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
in a year, or two. I usually have good intuitions. -- because it does not make any sense anymore, at least in the US conditions. It may still make some sense in Europe, perhaps.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 19:33 GMT]
The discipline of linguistics is simply not going to abandon a perfectly good term simply because you don't like it. Lilian, as the PROOF has been shown on this thread, it seems you're the only person in America NOT using the term.
MIT even recently published a book "native listening":
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/native-listening-0
And, I personally have heard it maybe two or three times over the last quarter of a century -- pronounced. I have seen it a lot here, in writing.
Also , this term makes no sense whatsoever in many other languages -- so how good can it be, especially in the modern, globalized world where most things are written in Englisih. I think I might want to take a vacation from this thread, after that.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 20:17 GMT]
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 09:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Fraudulent misrepresentation | Aug 8, 2013 |
Since I am not a lawyer, I can make the following statements.
Yes, if you claimed that a certain language was your native language when it wasn't in order to get an assignment, you could get yourself into a lot a trouble. The term "native" would pose no problem whatsoever as it would be given its natural meaning, that is, its generally accepted meaning. And your statement would constitute a fraudulent misrepresentation. As such, you would be liable for all damage directly attributab... See more Since I am not a lawyer, I can make the following statements.
Yes, if you claimed that a certain language was your native language when it wasn't in order to get an assignment, you could get yourself into a lot a trouble. The term "native" would pose no problem whatsoever as it would be given its natural meaning, that is, its generally accepted meaning. And your statement would constitute a fraudulent misrepresentation. As such, you would be liable for all damage directly attributable to the fraudulent misrepresentation, regardless of whether or not the damage was foreseeable. Any professional indemnity insurance you may have may not cover these circumstances, and you could end up having to pay out a lot a money.
Nobody can stand a fraudster...
[Editado a las 2013-08-08 20:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | | | No special reason | Aug 8, 2013 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
and spend most of their childhood in streets -- they stay Spanish and Turkish native speakers for life, even if they have only lived in Harlem, or Hanover?
Ahem, if the kids get to grow up on the streets in Hannover, they are the luckiest kids ever. The German spoken in Hannover is considered the truest and most dialect-free German in the country. The pronunciation of Hannover German is considered the equivalent to news speaker German. Not sure why you compare Hannover to Harlem.
a street is a street, isn't it ? I personally like Harlem, especially some parts of it, but I diid not really compare the two cities. I have read somewhere in this thread that the Turkish children in Germany were learning their language in the streets -- this is why their German was not so great. I just chose any city as an example.
And, Tatty really good luck with your misrepresentations. How can you misrepresent a thing that is not even defined by law, and is customarily understood as the language you use in ordinary life, among other definitions, especially that a judge may not be allowed to ask you what your native language is. Good luck with that. I would worry more about the misrepresented budgets of some clients.
[Edited at 2013-08-08 20:30 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:47
Hebrew to English
| I doff my hat to your sir... | Aug 8, 2013 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
have fun and good luck!
You have fought valiantly
| | | | | Just a final thought | Aug 8, 2013 |
Primary language -- might be a better term, yes I totally forgot about it. This is the one mostly used instead of native in NYC (no harm to cats, please)
Otherwise, have fun.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 00:47
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
This is the one mostly used instead of native in NYC
Chances are that the other 310 million Americans don't want to move there and hence remain rather unimpressed.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Ten common myths about translation quality | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
