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| | | It is California law | Jul 30, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
and clearance. They don't trust anyone, usually. Most likely the outsourcers make up the requirements. The California law is not based on any federal law. It might not even be a law -- just a recommendation.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 16:32 GMT]
See, California Government Code [http://www.boe.ca.gov/lawguides/property/current/ptlg/gov/27293.html ]:
27293. Recording instruments not in English language; certification, and fee therefor; notice, etc. (a) (1) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (b), if an instrument intended for record is executed or certified in whole or in part in a language other than English, the recorder shall not accept the instrument for record.
(2) (A) A translation in English of an instrument executed or certified in whole or in part in a language other than English may be presented to the county clerk for verification that the translation was performed by a certified or registered court interpreter, as described in Section 68561, or by an accredited translator registered with the American Translators Association. The translation shall be accompanied by a notarized declaration by the interpreter or translator that the translation is true and accurate, and includes the certification, qualification, or registration of the interpreter or translator. The clerk shall consult an Internet Web site maintained by the Judicial Council or the American Translators Association in verifying the certification, qualification, or registration of the interpreter or translator.
And, yes, it is a state law. So what? Fully valid in California.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 16:49 GMT]
| | | | | This is California -- | Jul 30, 2013 |
in New York usually court interpreters translate documents, or legal translators who are capable of doing it, and then they attach a certificate of accuracy to the document.
Regardless, the court interpreter usually has to verify that the translation is correct, during a court hearing or a trial. The courts don't really care about any memberships, since there are too many associations people can belong to.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 17:11 GMT]
| | | | Michele Fauble 
United States
Local time: 12:56
Norwegian to English
+ ...
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I see you are not aware of local laws -- it is 18 up in New York State. The age discrimination laws very State by state, although the federal law sets 40 as the starting point.
Of course I'm aware of local and state laws. Remember this?
Michele Fauble wrote:
In the US employers can discriminate on any basis that is not prohibited by law (federal, state or local.)
But you keep making ludicrous blanket statements about discrimination as if there were some general "all discrimination is illegal" law.
I'm not going to address this issue anymore since you do not seem to be able to get it.
Ty Kendall wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
just something on a voluntary basis -- that translators provide on a voluntary basis, not limited to any number of languages or circumstances, because thy understand that anything else would be against the US Constitution. Such things may be allowed in the EU --I don't know their law that well, but not the US.
I'll leave the legal stuff to someone else...
Good luck to anyone who tries.
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 03:56
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Ludicrous and an insulting attack on everyone who has two native language by upbringing | Jul 30, 2013 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
While anyone can declare two languages as native, the moment you do it, both your languages will get unverified. And I understand it is not easy at proz.com to get your second language verified.
ProZ.com job restrictions are based on declared native language.
You can declare one or two native languages.
ProZ.com plans to verify native languages in the future, but no programs or deadlines are in place yet.
In preparation for these plans, the native languages of members who declared only one NL appear 'verified' while in all other cases (non-members and/or double native languages) they look 'unverified', but this difference has no impact on job restrictions.
This applies both to jobs posted in the site and to directory searches.
Regards,
Enrique
Just wanted to make the point that it was discussed in the forums last year that many had declared and still display two native languages in their profiles, of which one is often English but that many native and even non-native English speakers in the forum threads had the impression, based on viewing text and other information in these profiles, that it was highly unlikely that English was indeed one of the claimants' native languages.
Although I have no problem with letting anyone claim two native languages when they first register at Proz.com, I would like to see this status limited to a certain period of time after which, since no verification process is in place, the user or member should have to choose between one of these declared languages and his/her profile page should then only display one native language. Otherwise, it clearly allows anyone to claim English or any other language as their second native language, for an unlimited period of time, when in fact it might not be. This seems unfair to translators who certainly have an advanced knowledge of their second, non-native language but decided, as they should, to stick to the truth and not report it as their second native language.
I don't see any point in keeping two unverified native languages forever. I would like to see only verified native languages displayed in the long run. If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago.
Could you consider adding this time limit for displaying two native languages in the near future or at least forward my ideas to those staff members who work on finding solutions with regard to verifying native languages? An alternative would be to let everyone display only one native language as long as it cannot be determined that he/she really has two native languages.
Thank you.
Bernhard [Edited at 2013-07-30 17:34 GMT]
Even better, why don't everyone who claims more than one specialty be required to choose only one? Or prove that their one declared native language is in fact true?
[Edited at 2013-07-30 17:57 GMT]
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| another suggestion for unverified languages | Jul 30, 2013 |
Another alternative to actual verification of two native languages at Proz.com would be to keep everything as it is now until a new verification procedure has been installed but to display in the search results that the native language (if only one is declared) is verified (for members) or that it is unverified (because two native languages are declared).
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:06 GMT]
| | | | | exceptions addressed | Jul 30, 2013 |
Lincoln Hui wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
...
I don't see any point in keeping two unverified native languages forever. I would like to see only verified native languages displayed in the long run. If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago. ...
Bernhard
Even better, why don't everyone who claims more than one specialty be required to choose only one? Or prove that their one declared native language is in fact true? [Edited at 2013-07-30 17:57 GMT]
| | | | | I see no improvement here | Jul 30, 2013 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
While anyone can declare two languages as native, the moment you do it, both your languages will get unverified. And I understand it is not easy at proz.com to get your second language verified.
ProZ.com job restrictions are based on declared native language.
You can declare one or two native languages.
ProZ.com plans to verify native languages in the future, but no programs or deadlines are in place yet.
In preparation for these plans, the native languages of members who declared only one NL appear 'verified' while in all other cases (non-members and/or double native languages) they look 'unverified', but this difference has no impact on job restrictions.
This applies both to jobs posted in the site and to directory searches.
Regards,
Enrique
Just wanted to make the point that it was discussed in the forums last year that many had declared and still display two native languages in their profiles, of which one is often English but that many native and even non-native English speakers in the forum threads had the impression, based on viewing text and other information in these profiles, that it was highly unlikely that English was indeed one of the claimants' native languages.
Although I have no problem with letting anyone claim two native languages when they first register at Proz.com, I would like to see this status limited to a certain period of time after which, since no verification process is in place, the user or member should have to choose between one of these declared languages and his/her profile page should then only display one native language. Otherwise, it clearly allows anyone to claim English or any other language as their second native language, for an unlimited period of time, when in fact it might not be. This seems unfair to translators who certainly have an advanced knowledge of their second, non-native language but decided, as they should, to stick to the truth and not report it as their second native language.
I don't see any point in keeping two unverified native languages forever. I would like to see only verified native languages displayed in the long run. If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago.
Could you consider adding this time limit for displaying two native languages in the near future or at least forward my ideas to those staff members who work on finding solutions with regard to verifying native languages? An alternative would be to let everyone display only one native language as long as it cannot be determined that he/she really has two native languages.
Thank you.
Bernhard
I see no advantage to our members in adding the time limit you suggest above.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 03:56
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Proof of innocence? | Jul 30, 2013 |
Although I have no problem with letting anyone claim two native languages when they first register at Proz.com, I would like to see this status limited to a certain period of time after which, since no verification process is in place, the user or member should have to choose between one of these declared languages and his/her profile page should then only display one native language.
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| unverified versus verified language | Jul 30, 2013 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
...
I don't see any point in keeping two unverified native languages forever. I would like to see only verified native languages displayed in the long run. If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago.
Could you consider adding this time limit for displaying two native languages in the near future or at least forward my ideas to those staff members who work on finding solutions with regard to verifying native languages? An alternative would be to let everyone display only one native language as long as it cannot be determined that he/she really has two native languages.
Thank you.
Bernhard
I see no advantage to our members in adding the time limit you suggest above.
Regards,
Enrique
Why should it matter then at all to have verified icons?
A person with two unverified native languages will come up as native speaker of both in the search directory. And it doesn't say that they are unverified.
Why would anyone want to keep their native languages unverified forever if they are truly their native languages? I wouldn't.
A few pages ago, I also addressed the problem many other native speakers have previously identified which relates to two unverified native languages declared in profiles.
Bernhard
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:26 GMT]
| | | | | Berhard, you cannot verify anybody's native language and | Jul 30, 2013 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Another alternative to actual verification of two native languages at Proz.com would be to keep everything as it is now until a new verification procedure has been installed but to display in the search results that the native language (if only one is declared) is verified (for members) or that it is unverified (because two native languages are declared).
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:06 GMT]
you may not even be allowed to do it in the US. Having spent most of my life here, mostly in language and literature related environments, I have never in my life heard about anything like that. I know they verify bilingualism in college -- you are considered bilingual if one of your language is university level and you have completed at least 3 years of high school in another language. I don't think any other verification would be legal, in the US. Your native language is whatever you say it is, but most people usually don't use the word native, haven't you noticed? I think you live in another state -- sometimes it may be like a different country, yet the federal laws are the same.
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:32 GMT]
| | | | | verifying or "identifying" or ... | Jul 30, 2013 |
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Another alternative to actual verification of two native languages at Proz.com would be to keep everything as it is now until a new verification procedure has been installed but to display in the search results that the native language (if only one is declared) is verified (for members) or that it is unverified (because two native languages are declared).
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:06 GMT]
you may not even be allowed to do it in the US. Having spent most of my life here, mostly in language and literature related environments, I have never in my life heard about anything like that. I know they verify bilingualism in college -- you are considered bilingual if one of your language is university level and you have completed at least 3 years of high school in another language. I don't think any other verification would be legal, in the US. Your native language is whatever you say this, but most people usually don't use the word native, haven't you noticed? I think you live in another state -- sometimes it may be like a different country, yet the federal laws are the same.
"Verifying" sounds like a nasty word. Granted. Doesn't have to be though. How about "identifying"? If you let me know where you were born and where you went to school in your teenage years, I can probably identify your native language. I don't see anything wrong with that. I declare that German is my native language and it really is. It's an important piece of information that I as a translator am ready to share with anyone.
Bernhard
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:25 GMT]
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 03:56
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Another alternative to actual verification of two native languages at Proz.com would be to keep everything as it is now until a new verification procedure has been installed but to display in the search results that the native language (if only one is declared) is verified (for members) or that it is unverified (because two native languages are declared).
[Edited at 2013-07-30 18:06 GMT]
you may not even be allowed to do it in the US. Having spent most of my life here, mostly in language and literature related environments, I have never in my life heard about anything like that. I know they verify bilingualism in college -- you are considered bilingual if one of your language is university level and you have completed at least 3 years of high school in another language. I don't think any other verification would be legal, in the US. Your native language is whatever you say this, but most people usually don't use the word native, haven't you noticed? I think you live in another state -- sometimes it may be like a different country, yet the federal laws are the same.
"Verifying" sounds like a nasty word. Granted. Doesn't have to be though. How about "identifying"? If you let me know where you were born and where you went to school in your teenage years, I can probably identify your native language.
Bernhard
Let's try Switzerland, Singapore, Philippines, India...heck, let's throw the Spanish-speaking American community into the mix while we're at it.
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:56
Hebrew to English
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
Berhard, you cannot verify anybody's native language and you may not even be allowed to do it in the US.
*Internal scream*
*Bangs head on wall*
Ok Lilian, instead of making such a vague, hedged statement backed up by nothing, prove it.
| | | | | rule and exception | Jul 30, 2013 |
Lincoln Hui wrote:
Although I have no problem with letting anyone claim two native languages when they first register at Proz.com, I would like to see this status limited to a certain period of time after which, since no verification process is in place, the user or member should have to choose between one of these declared languages and his/her profile page should then only display one native language.
That could be the rule. But as I stated:
If certain exceptions for regions or individuals with multiple native languages seem warranted and declaring two native languages as verified native languages should be allowed, then I would suggest an appropriate application form as I have suggested a few pages ago.
| | | | | Michel, form what I remember you spent many years in Norway | Jul 30, 2013 |
Michele Fauble wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
I see you are not aware of local laws -- it is 18 up in New York State. The age discrimination laws very State by state, although the federal law sets 40 as the starting point.
Of course I'm aware of local and state laws. Remember this?
Michele Fauble wrote:
In the US employers can discriminate on any basis that is not prohibited by law (federal, state or local.)
But you keep making ludicrous blanket statements about discrimination as if there were some general "all discrimination is illegal" law.
I'm not going to address this issue anymore since you do not seem to be able to get it.
Ty Kendall wrote:
LilianBNekipelo wrote:
just something on a voluntary basis -- that translators provide on a voluntary basis, not limited to any number of languages or circumstances, because thy understand that anything else would be against the US Constitution. Such things may be allowed in the EU --I don't know their law that well, but not the US.
I'll leave the legal stuff to someone else...
Good luck to anyone who tries.
I think you may just not be in touch with the reality here. Just look at any employment application, what types of discrimination are forbidden. One of them is on the basis of ethnicity. How can you avoid ethnicity-related questions, if you are asking someone about their native language? It would have been different, if you were asking them about their best language, or dominant language, but not native. This is why it is strictly forbidden in NY to use this term in any formal situations. This is all I can tell you.
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