| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Advice Needed: Client Dispute Over Translation Project Thread poster: Jonathan Cohen
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Jonathan Cohen 
Canada
Local time: 11:45
Member (2015)
English to French
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Dear ProZ,
I find myself in a challenging situation and need some guidance if you have.
Recently, a client (not a translation agency) approached me to undertake a manual translation project for a third-party end client (a governement agency). This wasn't our first collaboration together. We've worked together on numerous projects for almost a year for this same 3rd party client, all of which have never yielded any negative results.
The translation project ... See more Dear ProZ,
I find myself in a challenging situation and need some guidance if you have.
Recently, a client (not a translation agency) approached me to undertake a manual translation project for a third-party end client (a governement agency). This wasn't our first collaboration together. We've worked together on numerous projects for almost a year for this same 3rd party client, all of which have never yielded any negative results.
The translation project of this manual was intricate, involving extensive formatting and the creation of a lexicon, changing images, an endless TOC, lots of screenshots. I dedicated months to it.
Today, three months after delivering the document, I receive an unexpected email from the client stating that they had two independent reviewers go through it and they were dissatisfied with it, citing multiple examples. They are very unhappy with the work, it's not up to their standard and now they're requesting a refund for the payment (half the amount - so 4200$), which they already paid months ago.
The client also signed my contract, which explicitly states my zero liability for errors and omissions for my services. It also says that any feedback or review should be provided within a month (30 days) of delivery, for me to hold the funds in case of anything.
Given these circumstances, I don't know what is the appropriate course of action. Should I consult a lawyer? Or should I try to resolve the issue directly with the client, considering our history which has always been good? Should I offer 1000$-1500$ to keep the peace ?
I have always been communicative and supportive throughout our partnership, and I believe in honoring contractual agreements. What is the best approach to navigate this dispute?
Any advice or insights would be immensely appreciated.
Thank you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Did you mess up or not? | Mar 28 |
Did you mess up or not?
If not, keep the money and tell them to do one.
If you did, consult your conscience.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 17:45
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Jonathan Cohen wrote:
The client also signed my contract, which explicitly states my zero liability for errors and omissions for my services.
Interesting that your client was willing to sign this. 😊
Jonathan Cohen wrote:
Any advice or insights would be immensely appreciated.
I would think it depends on 2 things: 1) Was the complaint justified? 2) Would you like to keep your client?
If the complaint is justified you could walk away, since you and your client agreed that you are not liable, but I wouldn't call it professional or ethical.
If the complaint is justified, you could give a discount proportionate to the mistakes you made. But I would think that you would need to have screwed up things pretty badly to justify a 50% discount.
| | | | Jean Lachaud
United States
Local time: 11:45
English to French
+ ...
| The customer is lost anyway | Mar 28 |
You got paid. Months later, a bad faith customer claims defects in the delivered product.
Should you ignore the customer's request, what would happen?
They would have to pay a lawyer to initiate proceedings. Even should they win, lawyer, legal and collection fees would leave them almost nothing, if at all.
You are never going to work for this customer again, anyway.
I would just ignore the request, and sleep soundly.
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| They are in a weak position | Mar 28 |
It seems like you are not obliged to do anything here. The contract you have both signed states that you are not liable and that too long has passed for raising any issues anyway.
Have they sent you the independently reviewed work? I would want to see this to work out if there is any justification for their claims.
If you have PI insurance don't admit liability and hand everything over to them.
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What do you think about their comments? Were they fair/justified?
Instead of offering a refund, I would probably try to "fix" or improve the work in order resolve whatever issues were raised by the reviewers. It is extremely common for translated documents to go through a bit of revision and editing after delivery, even when the final translation is very good.
But if I thought that their comments were not justified in the first place, then I would defend my work and exp... See more What do you think about their comments? Were they fair/justified?
Instead of offering a refund, I would probably try to "fix" or improve the work in order resolve whatever issues were raised by the reviewers. It is extremely common for translated documents to go through a bit of revision and editing after delivery, even when the final translation is very good.
But if I thought that their comments were not justified in the first place, then I would defend my work and explain why they were wrong. It also seems a bit odd that they flat-out want a refund instead of working with you to improve the translation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arne Krueger
Germany
Local time: 17:45
German to English
+ ...
| Agree with "Arabic & More" | Mar 28 |
Difficult. They paid, so it was "accepted".
You had it in your own terms: 30 days to rectify any outstanding issues. They didn't come back after 35 or 45 days, which I would personally still accept as goodwill (nobody is perfect!). But it seems around 90+ days! Not understandable.
Ignoring is a bad habit. I would just point to your terms (which will render any legal actions against you invalid) AND show them your professionalism by explaining your rationale behind your ... See more Difficult. They paid, so it was "accepted".
You had it in your own terms: 30 days to rectify any outstanding issues. They didn't come back after 35 or 45 days, which I would personally still accept as goodwill (nobody is perfect!). But it seems around 90+ days! Not understandable.
Ignoring is a bad habit. I would just point to your terms (which will render any legal actions against you invalid) AND show them your professionalism by explaining your rationale behind your translation decisions. You actually don't have to, but I would do it. It just shows them you worked on it and you are confident about your own work. Because your client signed your contract, no supplementary performance applies. At least not in your case with three months delay in action.
I have of course no clue about what you translated and what they claim to be "wrong". However, if there are noticeable mistranslations (not only linguistically, but content- and context-wise), you may be in the shits. Not from a legal standpoint, but from a reputational one...
You know best what applies to your situation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Probably don't return | Mar 28 |
If you are confident that you have done your best, at due professional level (and not cheated etc.), then I don't think you should return anything. Your client must understand that you need to have your income/compensation for the time you've spent, whether or not they are satisfied with the final output.
Ultimately, the error is with the client. They already had had plenty of time and opportunities to assure themselves that you have the right skills and that your output is adequate... See more If you are confident that you have done your best, at due professional level (and not cheated etc.), then I don't think you should return anything. Your client must understand that you need to have your income/compensation for the time you've spent, whether or not they are satisfied with the final output.
Ultimately, the error is with the client. They already had had plenty of time and opportunities to assure themselves that you have the right skills and that your output is adequate for their requirements, they are the ones that selected you for this assignment and they should be making adequate provisions in the work flow to ensure an optimal end-product, involving a suitable mix of proofreaders/reviewers etc.
Here is a thought experiment: If you were an employee for a company and assigned a job and 3 months later, after delivering, get to know that the quality was not adequate, do you think the employer would request you to return your salary for that month?
I think not. I think they would realize that they, as a company, had messed up and that they need to organize their human resources and work flows differently; they would analyze the situation, identify where they had gone wrong, implement the necessary changes and learn from the experience and hope that next time things would go better.
Overall, it is part of the company's own learning curve. They cannot blame their human resources, and I think it is (probably) not correct of them to ignore your contractual agreement and request you to return the payment.
But, apart from such reasoning, ultimately, as Christopher said, your conscience should decide (in case you really think you messed up).
[Edited at 2024-03-28 22:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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1, They had plenty of time to review.
2. If the review is one of rewording the sentences- then strictly no. I get sometimes, apparently the reviewer wants to justify his work. But I stand by my wording. As the PM is not aware of either language, he may be worried! So be it.
3. what is your take? Are you satisfied that you did a good job? Then forget about refunding.
| | | | JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 17:45
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Keep calm and communicate | Mar 29 |
Firstly, I'm really sorry this has happened. When a client comes back after a job has long been delivered and makes a complaint it's always a horrible experience.
Secondly, I think that, as a professional translator, you should communicate with them about this issue rather than being dismissive or ignoring the email, even though your contract states that you can't be held liable for any errors.
So I'd go back to them, calmly, and say that you're sorry to hear they aren'... See more Firstly, I'm really sorry this has happened. When a client comes back after a job has long been delivered and makes a complaint it's always a horrible experience.
Secondly, I think that, as a professional translator, you should communicate with them about this issue rather than being dismissive or ignoring the email, even though your contract states that you can't be held liable for any errors.
So I'd go back to them, calmly, and say that you're sorry to hear they aren't happy with the translation, and point out that they were obliged to let you know within a month if they had any issues with it. Furthermore, that if they had contacted you immediately, rather than requesting a review – let alone two! – you could perhaps have worked together to resolve the problem.
You could also go on to say that, in the interests of your own quality process, you'd be very interested to see examples of the issues they found with it.
Do NOT offer to reduce your fee. They should have come to you the instant they discovered a problem with the translation (if they really did – personally I wouldn't be surprised if they were just trying to cut costs), and they certainly need to demonstrate clearly that your work was substandard, if such was the case.
Then you take it from there. I think it's most unlikely you can come back from this position with the client, but who knows what happened to the text after you delivered it? Maybe it was given to someone in-house to "proofread" and they've totally screwed up what you did.
Anyway, good luck with it. It really is a very unpleasant feeling to get this kind of email, and the bad taste it leaves is even worse.
A similar thing happened to me recently – I translated a book and during the many months that it was away being "fact checked" it turned out that the client had enlisted a friend to proofread it, which turned into a very very heavy edit. They've done a beautiful job of making what was a fairly pedestrian title really sing!
The problem was that the client didn't mention this to me – repeatedly saying that it was still being checked by the various parties involved – until they sent me the finished version and said "As we had to make so many changes, perhaps you'd waive the second half of your fee". And when I looked at the text, I couldn't help but agree that it was loads better than what I'd delivered. But it was also loads better than what the original author had written – it wasn't even the same book!
So of course I refused to reduce my fee, but I also had to ask to have my name taken off the book as the translator because I no longer felt like I'd translated it (the client also refused my offer to do a final proofread free of charge even though I could see that there were now some typos and a mixture of UK and US English).
All in all it was a very upsetting experience – but on the upside I now have a much better contract to send to clients before I start work! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jonathan Cohen
Canada
Local time: 11:45
Member (2015)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What a supportive community!
Reading all your comments has helped me tremendously. It's been stressful, but thank you all for your generous input.
Considering the tight deadlines of the project and the significant time spent grappling with formatting and image issues, the translation perhaps didn't meet my usual high standards I strive for, some of their comments were justified. But I don't see them as anything that can't be fixed with a new revision! Why throw the baby... See more What a supportive community!
Reading all your comments has helped me tremendously. It's been stressful, but thank you all for your generous input.
Considering the tight deadlines of the project and the significant time spent grappling with formatting and image issues, the translation perhaps didn't meet my usual high standards I strive for, some of their comments were justified. But I don't see them as anything that can't be fixed with a new revision! Why throw the baby out with the bathwater as they say? In answer to many of your questions, I'm confident that I gave it my best given the circumstances and constraints I faced. I worked quite diligently on it, creating a lexicon for all terms (of which there were many, over 650 in total), and while the outcome may not have been perfect, it was the best output for me. I should note that nowhere is a document of 80000 words perfect without a revision, this is standard practice. I just felt like the revisor's only job was not to pick up the pieces left behind but to rate my work, which does not sit well with me. Translations of this magnitude usually require a few different sets of eyes to revise them and cover where mistakes were left off. It's worth noting that, given the third-party clients, there are many voices involved here, not just the person I'm directly dealing with (who I suppose would be the subcontractor, the one I signed the contract with).
As a standard practice, I hold deposits for one month after completing the work to prevent these kinds of issues. After that period, I rely on those funds for living expenses. Therefore, three months later, being asked to refund the money is unreasonable since it's already been used! This is precisely why I have contracts in place, to safeguard against sudden refund requests and to protect myself against Errors and Omissions. It has only happened to me once before, and yes, it is definitely the kind of stuff that makes you lose sleep! So, it's unpleasant. I want to ensure all my clients are satisfied. However, I don't want to leave my client in a difficult situation.
I plan to reach out to the client after the Easter holidays to express my willingness to revisit the work and make necessary revisions free of charge. While I hope they understand my position, I don'T think they have a leg to stand on given I have a pretty watertight zero liability contract with him.
That said, I'm also contemplating offering a small sum, perhaps around $1000, as a gesture of goodwill, to hire a proofreader and maintain a positive relationship. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this! Do you think it would be seen as admitting fault, or do you believe it would be a helpful gesture? I don't believe this third-party client really has any budget constraints as they are a gouv agency. Although I realize I may eventually lose this client, I'm committed to resolving this matter within reasonable boundaries.
Thank you all again for your comments!
Feeling the love 
Jon
[Edited at 2024-03-29 13:32 GMT]
[Edited at 2024-03-29 13:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Hi Jonathan,
The client is not professional. They agreed with your zero liability, which implies that they agreed to accept
your work with potential errors or omissions at their own risk. As they signed your contract,
it is not reasonable that they request a refund even if they needed to pay for the revision of two independent
reviewers. They should have not signed if they would request a refund for unhappy quality.
[quote]Jonathan Cohen wrote:
Today, three months after delivering the document, I receive an unexpected email from the client stating that they had two independent reviewers go through it and they were dissatisfied with it, citing multiple examples. They are very unhappy with the work, it's not up to their standard and now they're requesting a refund for the payment (half the amount - so 4200$), which they already paid months ago.
The client also signed my contract, which explicitly states my zero liability for errors and omissions for my services. It also says that any feedback or review should be provided within a month (30 days) of delivery, for me to hold the funds in case of anything.
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| Standard practice... | Mar 29 |
in many fields is to give you the possibility to remedy in case the client is not satisfied. Therefore, I would suggest you tell them you are prepare to "fix" the errors free of charge. Nothing more, nothing less. Absolutely no discounts. Also since a contract has been signed excluding your liability, as someone else has mentioned already, they don't have a leg to stand on, legally.
Next time, if the deadline is too tight, negotiate or turn down. Difficult, I know... I usually say ... See more in many fields is to give you the possibility to remedy in case the client is not satisfied. Therefore, I would suggest you tell them you are prepare to "fix" the errors free of charge. Nothing more, nothing less. Absolutely no discounts. Also since a contract has been signed excluding your liability, as someone else has mentioned already, they don't have a leg to stand on, legally.
Next time, if the deadline is too tight, negotiate or turn down. Difficult, I know... I usually say I'm prepared to do it, but that I cannot guarantee the quality of the end product. Then it's up to them if they want to go ahead or not.
[Edited at 2024-03-29 14:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arne Krueger
Germany
Local time: 17:45
German to English
+ ...
| Subcontractor of the subcontractor of the subcontractor... | Mar 29 |
Hmm...
Sounds strange. After you worked on a 80k document, you should certainly know what it is about. I cannot see how there can be major discrepancies.
No, don't offer a refund. But what you could do is to offer some sort of credit for future jobs, (only) if you want to keep this particular client. I have done that in the past (because a client had once paid me too much - it does happen!) and have had good experiences with it. Just work it off with future tasks. But y... See more Hmm...
Sounds strange. After you worked on a 80k document, you should certainly know what it is about. I cannot see how there can be major discrepancies.
No, don't offer a refund. But what you could do is to offer some sort of credit for future jobs, (only) if you want to keep this particular client. I have done that in the past (because a client had once paid me too much - it does happen!) and have had good experiences with it. Just work it off with future tasks. But you must make your client aware that issues like that are unacceptable in future. The revision step must be in line with your terms, or at least what both of you agree on. Your "direct" client, that apparently also paid you, must know about it. It is simply his/her responsibility. ▲ Collapse
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
....in many fields is to give you the possibility to remedy in case the client is not satisfied. Therefore, I would suggest you tell them you are prepare to "fix" the errors free of charge. Nothing more, nothing less. Absolutely no discounts.
The only possible aspect I wonder about here is whether someone else has already fixed it. Do you have access to their current "master version", as it were, to see what has been changed from what you delivered. And by whom and at what cost?
In essence, I suppose my question is: why are they asking for a refund?
Did they spend $4k fixing it?
If so, given your contract states you give people a month to raise issues, why didn't they use that month?
Or are they asking for $4k as some kind of penalty or punishment? In which case, what are the grounds?
I do tend to agree with those saying "keep the money" and "no refunds", but I do think it's worth explaining to them why their approach is wrong. Assuming it is. Which we can only really be sure about if we know why they are doing what they are doing and what exactly they hope to achieve.
Good luck (from a man who, I'm afraid, would rather live in a world where the only people who are allowed to "reach out" are The Four Tops )
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